1997 C40 No up trim when underway

[TownsendsFJR1300]

The Op's model # is C 40 PLRV.

Below is the Yamaha model code chart. Under the "trim and tilt" section,

"P""stands for tilt / electric start

"T" stand for power trim and tilt

[AReinhart]

The first link, parts diagram, is what is listed for my motor. It's funny though that my trim only function works just like tilt except when going faster than idle speed. Seems quite retarded to have it work this way. I can "trim" and run any way I want as long as I set it at idle speed. Now, I don't have the experience you guys have with bigger outboards, but I've been around boats a minute or two myself. I've never heard of such foolishness. 1997 was not that long ago and like I said, my older omc's tilted and trimmed......maybe that's why they went under- that stuff isn't cheap. Why anyone would make a tilt without trim motor beats me......anyway, just for posterity, ill take a close up of my trim unit and post it here. Maybe it will help some other poor fool like myself when they can't understand why their motor won't trim.....I did find a place called Bob's machine shop that sells trim tilt jackplates ready to go for like 550....if this motor turns out to be what all the yamaha aficionados say it is, might be a worthwhile investment. I would love to craigslist this motor (really peedmeoff when I learned that this was a budget motor) and hang a new etec or merc off the back but the weight penalty is severe going to those motors. This C40, ghetto as it is, is lightweight and powerful. If I go etec, I might as well go to a 50 as it weighs the same as the 40-which is almost 100 pounds heavier than what I have now, 133 vs 240.......

[AReinhart]

I should add when considering keeping this motor that here in SE Georgia, Yamaha's are everywhere. There is excellent dealer support. That should mean something, even if I've never taken any outboard to a dealer. I'm a couple steps up from your average shade tree so if it was something within the valve body i would not be afraid to tackle it. The Bmachine option is ahelluva lot cheaper than a new motor and has easy resale.....just a thought.
.

[99yam40]

On my 1999 C40 the trim moves very slowly at the bottom and once up some degrees it moves a lot faster when it hits the tilt portion.
I have no idea how they do that inside the unit.

Get it running well 1st then see about the aftermarket T&T.
The Yamaha40 and 50 of that vintage were real close to each other
carbs and tuner maybe something else. weight was the same

[AReinhart]

Yeah it's funny how spoiled we've become. Back when I was 9 or 10 I had a little 11' fiberglass ensign dinghy with a 1957 Evinrude Sportin 10 on the back. Manual start, manual trim, manual lift with a heavy metal fuel tank with glass over the fuel gauge. I used to ride all over the Chesapeake bay in that thing with a life jacket, cushion and a cooler of coke.....now I bitch when I don't have power everything and a bimini....lol

[zenoahphobic]

Yeah it's funny how spoiled we've become. Back when I was 9 or 10 I had a little 11' fiberglass ensign dinghy with a 1957 Evinrude Sportin 10 on the back. Manual start, manual trim, manual lift with a heavy metal fuel tank with glass over the fuel gauge. I used to ride all over the Chesapeake bay in that thing with a life jacket, cushion and a cooler of coke.....now I bitch when I don't have power everything and a bimini....lol

And when they introduced larger outboards they introduced remote controls at the helm, but you still had to get off your seat and go to the back of the boat to turn the engine off!
One wire and a button was a cost saving then too.

[ncfishhawk]

Ok, cooled off a minute. Where credit is due:

Thanks guys for taking the time to point this out to me. I would have been chasing a ghost and spending who knows what trying to fix a problem that does not exist......

Anyway, this is my first Yamaha outboard. On the few powerboats and as kicker motors on sailboats I have always had Johnson/Evinrude engines on the back. This whaler came with the Yamaha and the guy said it only has about 80 hours on it since new. Looking under the cowl it's spotless. It idles like crap, though it has never quit. I've ran 16 gallons through it so far. I ordered a set of used carbs off eBay and a carb kit so I can rebuild them on the bench and simply swap them out hanging off the back of the boat in the Marina (it's in a slip). Being this IS a Yamaha forum, is there any reason I should leave this thing hanging off the back of my nice whaler? Is this a particularly good engine that with maintenance (I'm meticulous), give me years of trouble free service? I guess I can deal with the trim or lack of if the engine is a good one that doesn't force me to cuss at it to much. Other than the carbs being gummed up (idle circuit), the only thing wrong is the cowl is faded from the sun. I've already sourced the paint and decals. It's got a nice stainless steel prop on it and seems to run the boat out well. It smokes a little but that's because I f ound out (waiting on the owners manual still) it takes 100:1 oil ratio and not 50:1 which I've been running. Better too much than too little....

If its a 2 cyl motor don't waste a lot of time trying to get a smooth idle. Its not going to happen. Mine has been very dependable for the 20 years I've owned it but it has idled like crap for all 20. Tried every trick in the book.

[AReinhart]

Agreed on the 2 cylinder rough idle. This one seems to miss though. Once I drop into the idle circuit, it goes from smooth to choppy and misses. At first it really worried me but I just *****ed for 8 straight hours and it never quit. To counter the common carb issue with these motors, I found a set of carbs+airbox for $55 on eBay. I'll always have a fresh , clean set of carbs to bolt on when needed.


As promised, here is a picture of my "TILT" unit

[boscoe99]

More on power tilt versus power trim and tilt.

The C40PLRV uses a 6H5-43840-05-4D POWER TILT ASSEMBLY.

The C40TLRV uses a 62X-43800-02-4D POWER TRIM & TILT ASSEMBLY.

Power trim and tilt allows for the motor to be trimmed while underway and tilted when the motor is stopped. Power tilt allows for the motor to be tilted when the motor is stopped.

Keep on learning. There is too much to know about Yamaha products.

[boscoe99]

Oh, I had a Mercury that had no power trim or power tilt. All had to be done manually. To a man that has nothing, just a power tilt seems pretty good. We get spoiled with what we have and find it hard to go back.

Actually, go back far enough in time and outboard motors did not have power trim and/or power trim or tilt at all. Any of them. My dads Mercury tower of power 80 HP (biggest and baddest Mercury at the time) did not. It also did not have a neutral. It either ran in forward or it ran in reverse. If you wanted to go forward you started it in forward. If you wanted to go in reverse you started it in reverse. If going forward but reverse was needed, the motor had to be stopped so that it could be started in reverse. Seemed completely normal at the time because that is what we knew.

[zenoahphobic]

Oh, I had a Mercury that had no power trim or power tilt. All had to be done manually. To a man that has nothing, just a power tilt seems pretty good. We get spoiled with what we have and find it hard to go back.

Actually, go back far enough in time and outboard motors did not have power trim and/or power trim or tilt at all. Any of them. My dads Mercury tower of power 80 HP (biggest and baddest Mercury at the time) did not. It also did not have a neutral. It either ran in forward or it ran in reverse. If you wanted to go forward you started it in forward. If you wanted to go in reverse you started it in reverse. If going forward but reverse was needed, the motor had to be stopped so that it could be started in reverse. Seemed completely normal at the time because that is what we knew.

Yes in the fifties, was your 80 cream colour? I remember the cream 50 Hp very well.
I did not realize the stopping for reverse (was never allowed to drive but loved to ski behind). Does that mean there was a fixed gearbox and the engine itself was made to run clockwise as well as anticlockwise. Might explain the delay when ever the boat got caught in seaweed and left me dumped in the water for long periods of time.

[boscoe99]

Yep, the gearing was fixed in the gear case. The motor turned in one direction for forward and in the opposite direction for reverse.

The starter motor was what got it going in the desired rotation direction in the first place.

Starter button was on top of the throttle handle. Made for a convenient start of course since it could all be done with one hand.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Boscoe, in post 38, the last pic, blown up, I see numerous holes in the sides of the transom bracket.

I suspect their for a rod (adjustable thru each hole), however with the tilt unit on this engine, they are NOT USED?? They are at different heights too(????)

I'm not sure if I see any "pads" on the engine that would rest against the rod (if used). Actually, in pic #2(blown up), there appears to be pads on the engine and those holes appear that they should that shaft (part #11) be installed as a "base", lowest engine setting?

It shows on the same parts fisch with the trim unit..


Part #11; http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Ya...0PR/parts.html

[99yam40]

yes mine has those too and the rod is in the last hole by transom.
If it is removed the motor hits on motor parts that are meant for that when let all the way down. So I leave the rod in to let it hit that pad

[AReinhart]

99: Yeah I considered looking for a TLRV unit and doing a swap this winter until learning (by ordering the wrong owners manual on EBay) that the TLRV is a complely different engine than the PLRV. Apparently, I got the old version of the Yamaha 40. The new one was a 3 cyc model. I suppose this 3 cyc engine idled smoother and got better emissions.

FJR: I wondered about that. The lowest tilt position is flat out dangerous at speed as it is. It will violently dig the right sponson in the water and you better be holding on tight when it does. I think I am going to look into that pin so that I can lock the engine in a generally optimal position. I mean, that's what a manual trim engine would do right? Lowest lowered position should be the running pposition.

I noticed yesterday that the sound of the hydraulic system has changed to a higher pitched whine when trying to trim up when going to fast. I wonder if I have damaged something by continually trying to trim the motor up. What I've been doing to counter the lack of trim has been to start out with the motor trimmed slightly high (eyeball guess). Then once on plane and at the throttle setting I want, I slowly blip the tilt down until it stops porposing.

I still don't understand one thing. The pressure difference that the tilt cylinder sees cannot be that much different at idle speed and the point where it won't lift, which is just a hair above that. That hydraulic cylinder has got to be pretty powerful, it lifted the engine and my wife with ease. The reason must be some sort of lockout feature based on throttle position. Which means somehow....I should be able to bypass it. I get it that for some reason the unit shouldn't be used to trim at speed. But it would be nice to at least not have to drop to 2 knots to trim up. Any increase in ability here would be welcome. That aftermarket T&T jackplate sounds better and better.

I wonder if there are any other benefits to be gained by the fact that the aftermarket T&T unit moves the outboard aft about 5-6"?