Stalling Yamaha F150

[high sierra]

99yam40, At first the motor seemed to have a malfunction only when " I " was out at mid ****s to 20's. When the dealer went he launched when it was warmer in the 30's. He went when it was cool , drizzling lightly and rough . Higher air pressure. Each time I went it got worse. Finally in their shop after getting no malfunctions on their readouts , it started to show a bad barometer pressure on later readouts. Now it is doing it all the time in their shop. . A new ISC is on the way. The problem started off occasionally occuring and has got progressively worse over the period of a year. The dealer is trying for sure. high sierra

[99yam40]

99yam40, At first the motor seemed to have a malfunction only when " I " was out at mid ****s to 20's. When the dealer went he launched when it was warmer in the 30's. He went when it was cool , drizzling lightly and rough . Higher air pressure. Each time I went it got worse. Finally in their shop after getting no malfunctions on their readouts , it started to show a bad barometer pressure on later readouts. Now it is doing it all the time in their shop. . A new ISC is on the way. The problem started off occasionally occuring and has got progressively worse over the period of a year. The dealer is trying for sure. high sierra

Did they swap ISC between the 2 motors?
You said they swapped all sensors and ECU

Did that not make a difference on your motor and move the problem to the other motor?

What are you catching in that cold of temperatures up there?
Down here they shut down the fishing in most bays as all the fish stack up in the deep waters and are too easy to catch so they protect the big sow trout and others.

[high sierra]

Yamaha

i don't believe they swapped the ISC . I thought that's what it might be as several smart people advised it to be the problem. The tech didn't believe it.
We fish for cuthroat trout in the winter. They have to be between 17 to 20 inches and over 24. A 16 pounder was caught last week , and bunch of 10 to 12 lbs. in the last few weeks. Now you know why I want to get out there. The lake is 352 feet deep and doesn't freeze over but the shore can be icy. high sierra

[rodbolt17]

I dont get the correlation between a bad baro reading AND the ISC.
two COMPLETLY different circuits and COMPLETLY unrelated.
the baro circuit is a 5V reference and the ISC is a constant 12V circuit that the ECU toggles the ground to change the stepper motor polarity to open(more intake air) or close it(less intake air) at an idle.
much above about 1000 RPM and the ISC is commanded to 100% open.
that rattle you hear,or should, when the engine s shut down is the stepper motors(ISC) resetting to almost 100% in anticipation of the next start cycle.
thats why EFI,even your car, tends rev some when initially started then the idle settles down.
when started cold the TPS and the ECT control the fuel and timing map. after 113*F the ECT is out of the loop.
however that ISC was at or near 100% when it lit off and it takes a few seconds of run time for the ECU to look at ALL the sensors and determine the correct air to fuel ratio based on sensor inputs.
biggest issue the ISC ever gives is mechanically sticking and causing an overcurrent in the ECU causing the ECU to overheat(ISC overheats as well) and making the ECU go bonkers.
easy test for the ISC?
simply idle the engine,activate the ISC dynamic test about 5 times in succession while observing the body temp with a temp gun.
if the body temp exceeds 200*F odds are high its sticking.
low ISC voltage will do the same thing.
the ISC is NOT monitored for mechanical failures.
if the ISC is unlugged OR a motor winding burned out you may see a code 37, but thats it.
physical ISC position isnt monitored.
but its all realitvly easy to see on the graph functions and the last 13 min run time function.
like fuel rail pressure, the ECU assumes the ISC followed the command.
the entire time that F150 is idleing the RPM scales and the ISC % changes 3-6% if it does not something broke or if the ISC command is changing 10% or more without a corresponding change in RPM somehing failed.
like I keep hammering, the lap top is a tool not a technician.
best tool a technician has resides between the port and starboard earpieces.

[high sierra]

stalling Yamaha

Rodbolt , call the tech who will be there on Tuesday. You have the number. He may or may not talk to you. His name is Tony I believe. Never met him. Service manager's man's name is David Nadeau. Let's cut out the middle man, Me.
I ordered the computer program but there was a waiting list ( 65 people) and a 5 month delay in orders. I also needed a laptop. I cancelled the program as I was approaching a $1000 on a warranteed motor. I had already spent $150 on my best guess. high sierra

[rodbolt17]

good luck getting the diagnostic cable, the version 1.33 software I have.
luckily I was able to repair ours last summer.
I have had 2 on order since june 2010.
like I keep hammering on the laptop.
odds are its gonna sit there like a bump on a log and tell you nothing is wrong,no codes.
what it will allow a tech to do is engage the first tool between the port and starboard earpieces.
if that tool slips or fails to engage the laptop is another tool that simply looks cool while collecting dust.

[99yam40]

I cancelled the program as I was approaching a $1000 on a warranteed motor. I had already spent $150 on my best guess. high sierra

Does this mean you dropped the extended warranty?

[high sierra]

Yamaha

No, I was spending my own money as I didn't want to go to a dealer when the fishing season just started . I hadn't used the warranty as of yet. The program of which I speak is the computer program from Yamaha. high sierra

[99yam40]

good to hear

[boatmangc]

I just got back from Kennesaw jan 28th myself.
no more annual tech seminars. didnt have one for the 2010 year.
kind of a bummer.

they sent out a bulliten several months ago and in each class a tech rep comes by and explains why.
dealerships and techs wil now have information emailed to them.
gotta volvo catalyst engine school next month.
dry stack marina I work at has a lot of yamaha 150 and up with twins,and a lot of 27-33 ft with twin volvo.
I have actually done a PDI on an F2.5 once.
the one and only I ever saw.
we just dont see a lot of little engines.
I have learned to hate the 1000 hour service on 36 grady's with twin F350's, or about anything with twin or triple F350 or F250 motors.
nothing like standing on a ladder for two days doing maintenance.

I feel ya with the trip 350 and the like, But I am happy working on the big boys and usually pass the little motors off on a guy in town that does inflatables.

I rarely see anything that is less than 115 and usually 225+ Hp. Lots of offshore boats in the Keys.

I go to Kennesaw every November, I was one of the sponsors for the Southern Super Heavyweight Shootout at the Atlanta Dragway. It happens the 1st weekend of November, this was our 10th Year!
This year I took electrical again. I brought a 2 year protege' for his module 1 course. He passed with a 90!

As far as for YDIS, it is true, it helps a trained technician rule out what is not wrong. Most guys plug in, see no faults and then tell the customer "it was an anomaly, go run it with some Ring Free for the weekend and call me".

i only harp about the injectors because of the amount of them I send out here in the Fl Keys. I actually keep a set of injectors for F 115, F 150 and F225 freshly cleaned in stock.

Between that and the countless HPDI high pressure pumps I send out I should be part owner of Flagship.

I actually put a pair Mercruiser lift pumps on my fishing buddies 2003 25 Parker with twin Z200s with 2 micron Racors just to see what we were catching. After 6 hours the motor shut off because the 2 micron filters were completely plugged and the motor stalled. I cut the filters apart and what came out was like talcum powder, you couldn't detect any grit between your fingertips.

After a case of 2 micron elements and about 6 tanks of fuel ran down to empty, I took the lift pump back out and went back to 10 micron filters. I didn't want to leave a pressurized supply system in the boat even though I redid everything with oetiker clamps.

I am in no way suggesting this procedure as the Coast Guard would have a coronary as they were writing your citations for violating ABYC and Coast Guard regulations.

I did however find the culprit of many, many Yamaha fuel issues.
If your boat is old enough to have run MTBE enriched fuel and then switched to E10 or stronger there is stuff being cleaned out of your fuel system flowing downstream to find something to plug up.

99Yam40,
I have never had to do the "fool the ECU" trick, I must just be lucky. If someone else has had it happen it is only logical that eventually I will see one with the same characteristics.

I did however have to use the Vacuumate on the F150 I fixed Friday because the owner and the other techs found every screw they could turn trying to make it run before I got there, once I R&Rd the injectors I had to do a proper linc N sync to settle it down, Idle was at 1400 after installing the clean injectors, just for demonstration I idled it down to 400 RPM and shifted in and out of gear 10 or so times just to show him the stalling was over.

[rodbolt17]

the F150 stalling issue is well known at yamaha and there is a tech bulliten about it.
if its going to occur its going to do it while"bumping" the throttle while making small *****ing speed or docking movements.
wont do it if ya just jam the throttle.
we have found that same grayish/white powder on a lot of stuff.
we keep z300,200,F115,150,2 sets of F225 and a set of 50 injectors on the shelf.
know what ya mean about being a co owner. summertime is a constant stream of UPS boxes to flagship.
once you open up that VST and see that grayish powder, your assured that this is coming back again with fuel issues.
myself, no money working on V4 and smaller.
even though everything on an F250 or V8 is done on a ladder at least the money is good.
however I have enough commercial guys running the 40-90 range to keep me looking at them.
however looking at this thread since the first post, I know that the issue it started with is still there only now with tech induced issues.
worst thing ever is being the 3,or more, tech to have looked at it with the same isse and see EVERY fastener for adjustments,have been tweaked.
I have done the electrical about 4 times,did miss a question once.
however 6 years in the United States Navy's advanced electronics field does give me a slight advantage.
wasnt my fault my first 3 years in the USN all I did was electronics schools,they kept saying do good in this one and we will send you to another.
my primary NEC is CIWS and was working on a secondary for Harpoon missle.

[boatmangc]

Interesting about the tech updates, I took mine 3.19 10 in Key Largo, I didn't realize it was the last one. Bummer is right.
You really need an electronics background these days, in the 79-85 years of my career I worked for Diebold Inc and learned CMOS microprocessor systems as well as transistor logic. It really gave me an edge when Electronics started appearing on outboards. I worked boats at night and weekends. Then taught afternoon outboard classes at a technical school 85-86.

High Sierra
You said the donor motor is now exhibiting problems too?

The same symptoms?

How are they running it, on a boat?

In the water?

[high sierra]

Yamaha stalling

In a tank. Same symptoms at idle high sierra

[Sparkieboat]

I assume they tested the donor motor before they robbed it??? possible it came already messed up???

[high sierra]

Yamaha ( lack of )Quality

The "tec" has been in town 5 times , about 8 days thereabouts, working on my F150 Yamaha. He worked ALL day today, and guess what. IT STILL DOES'NT RUN PROPERLY. He doesn't know what he is doing . He is talking to headquarters and is going to try again tomorrow. They should take this motor (and him) to Georgia and use it for a test motor for the tec's. I know he is in the minority but he needs more training now.
On a lighter side , I would like to take a poll and see who can come up with the motor fix in "10 " words of less. No long winded answers that I don't comprehend. Just a plain, it's the magneto or the shift lever or the prop etc. You don't win anything, just the pride of knowing more than Yamaha. This has got to the point of being ridiculous.
Yamaha has never contacted me , sent an Email or said tough kazot. The tec does'nt talk to customers and now I know why. Do they really care? Would I buy another Yamaha? Not bloody likely. high sierra