Problem was FUEL not SPARK

I have renamed a previous thread since the nature of the issue has dramatically changed.
This is a continuation of the thread "Loss of spark on Port side"

Here's what happened.... I assumed since it appeared that half the engine was dead that it was a spark issue. I dont have advanced spark test gear so I called in a local mobile mech. He tested spark and compression, all was great there he said. (MY BAD for not checking for spark at each cylinder for sure.)

He said the issue is FUEL, most of the cyls were not firing due to Gummed up carbs. He's recommending to rebuild /clean all carbs as well as the fuel pumps. Cost: 2 days $650.00

I have done plenty of carbs in the past and its a messy job...I decided to let him do it even though this sounded very expensive since I know what goes into rebuilding a 2 stroke carb..... BUt he is coming to the boat and doing this at my Marina while the boat is in it's wet slip so its convenient.

About the FUEL:

I initially thought that the carbs being so bad was strange since I use the boat often and always use startron to help with the 10% ethanol gas we have here.

But I trust this Guy so I thought about fuel for a second.

Then I did remember that after 12 good clean months of running every week or so, I found a bunch of gunk in the filters last time I used the boat...both the Standard water sep. that I have near the tanks under the C /console, and in the Racor near the engine had strange looking dark crap. I poured out the racor and saw what looked like brown smoky colored sludgie liquid below the mormal looking fuel at the top of the jar. It wasnt dirt...it looked like a heavier , smoky, more orange gasoline..

I cleaned these filters out and assumed all was fine....But that was a month ago and I had not used the boat since so I never discovered that this mess probably got into the lines/pumps/carbs.

What bothers me is I really suspect ETHANOL after talking to the mechanic.
HE recommends using NON ethanol gas, if I can find it....

Anybody have this problem? Solutions ?

IF its the fuel that Im using....Im worried about it happening again & Again...Cleaning the pumps /filters / lines carbs very often cant be the solution....

Anything I can do except change to 10 micron filters ?

[dorf]

My location is N Central Arkansas

Yamaha dealer recommends their 10 micron fuel filter. It is large and has lots of media in it.

My ex-Evinrude maintenance marina shop guy recommends (and Ive been using it forever) Evinrude 2+4 fuel conditioner.

I use it in all my gas 2 and 4 stroke engines.......no problems !!!!

[jb123]

MOST motor issues are fuel/fuel supply related.

This problem has taken me by surprise because I have been using Startron treatment (made for ethanol gas problem especially) religiously for the last year.

As of right now my carbs are off and being cleaned and I can see a good amount of orangy discolored fuel in the bottom of my RACOR sight bowl even though I've emptied it twice.

This means i'm going to have to pump and pump fuel, possibly the whole damn 70 gals I just put in to get all the orangy separated ethanol out of the tank & system.

One thing for sure....THIS AINT FUN , The thing that caught me by surprise about the ETHANOL infiltration is that I'm a frequent user of my boat..... Now as I look around the MARINA I am really wondering how many people are going to be spending hundreds and hundreds on their boat, or worse, blowing their engine due to carbs & cylinders not getting gas while the engine is spinning due to ETHANOL separated fuel getting sucked up into the fuel systems. Near me in South Florida I see TONS of boats getting way way less use than mine.

Boaters beware

[dorf]

I don't know what type of boat/fuel tank you have but...... It sounds like sealant from a fuel tank or fuel lines that have seperated.

Wild guess.....but it happens in airplanes, causes the same mess.

Sorry about the lack of imp. info. about my rig.

I have a 1978 25 mako tournament edition with 2 aluminum tanks, a 1994 200 sws Yamaha. IT has 2 separator/ filters. One is a standard sierra spin on at the output of the fuel tank, other is a racor with sight bowl near the engine.

I recently found the first separator clogged with rusty dirty fluid. The second in line was found to have an orangy tea-like fluid filling 1/2 of the sight bowl.

The next trip I took, after changing the filters, was the first time I had ever had running issues with the engine.

I've owned the rig for about 18 months and have had no running issues.

[Felton]

Hey Mav gald to see you figured your problem out. I had a clog similiar to yours this summer. It was the first round of E10 gas though my boat. What I figured is that it gave my tank a good cleaning. After that I used Startron tank cleaner for the next two refills I haven't had any problems since. I also started to use Sta bil not positive but i feal like it does a better job. Racor makes a 2 micron screw on filter I am going to go to it as soon as I use the couple extra 10 micron I have laying around.


Mako 20C

Thanks for the 2 micron info Felton, If anything, having to spend $700.oo for the carb and pump rebuild has caused me to look at this from everyway possible and I feel alot more educated now thanks to this board....

The guy who is re-installing the carbs and pumps today said that the Racor I have actually is a 10 micron element. If so I will stay with that and watch the bowl more carefully. At least I know I can go to 2 micron if particles are a problem.

I think all the particulates have been captured and thrown away all ready as I found very dirty filters and changed them in November. I didnt put two and two together and realize it was so dirty due to the ETHANOL working to clean everything.

MY problem seems to stem not from particulates, but from ethanol, which had separated from the gas, and sat in the carbs, especially bottom one, and turned to jelly making the carb useless. The small yamaha filter at the engine had little particulates by the way...just a very very small normal amount.

SO My whole problem seemed to be this: ehtanol separation occurred in my tank after using certified ethanol gas from the local stations since July when gas prices skyrocketed. , the ice-tea looking ethanol stuff went past the filters, I didnt empty the racor bowl in time, it filled and passed the orangy ethanol to the engine where it sat in the carbs. Unfortunately, this happened right before one period in the fall where I didnt use the boat for 7 -8 weeks. After this sitting period is when the problems occurred.

According to the Mechanic I should now do the following:

Change both my spin on sierra filter and the racor that I have in line more often. Drain the bowl on the racor before/after each use. The racor should separate any of the heavy water laden orangy ethanol gas out, as long as I keep up with the build-up in the sight bowl I'll be OK.

Use startron/ethanol treatment (as I have been) with the gas to help preserve fuel and counteract water buildup in the tank.

After today I will start doing this and will report back after awhile to update others who may be forced into using ethanol like I seem to be here in Key West FL.

Good luck everybody.

Paid mechanic today, he mis calculated cost of carb kits
And new pumps. He lowered bill to
$560.00

He also put in a new primer bulb.

NEw info:

It seems that we are all going to have to deal with ethanol gas sooner or later.

Once you start using gas with Ethanol, its only a matter of time until your boat sits for a short time with a load of gas that has ethanol separated out at the bottom. (Looks like Iced Tea) . If you are lucky, it gets separated out in your RACOR or similar device, you see it, and dispose of the stuff before it does harm by reaching your engine.



Since I am going to have to deal with it from now on, I am going to do an experiment and see what if anything startron additive for Ethanol does for the gas that has already had the separation occur.

I am taking a sample of gas from my racor that clearly has the ethanol at the bottom.

I'm putting it in a container and Im going to add startron ethanol treatment.

IM going to observe the gas daily to see what if anything happens to the ethanol on the bottom of the sample jar.

IF it works, Im going to buy a 32oz bottle and add it to my tank, hoping to re-constitute the mess that may be in there.

Will report back.

Ethanol Report continued:

As stated I put the Startron Ethanol treatment in a container that contained a mixture of normal fuel with the "orange iced tea" looking Ethanol at the bottom. I got this gas sample by simply dumping my filter into a coffee can. I used about the recommended dose of Startron. I checked everyday for the last 5 days. the startron has done nothing to reconstitute the ehtanol at the bottom of the can. I now have dumped extra Startron in the can...will see what happens if anything.

I used the boat all weekend and here's what happened. I carried a 6 gal fuel can around and dumped both my sierra water sep. filter and my racor
filter about 8 - 9 times until I could see no more orangy junk coming out of the filters. That's it. Nothing but clean gas now so far. I think I separated out about 3 gallons of the gook from my 80 gallon onboard tank.

Boat ran great and the filters did their job. The motor never surged or skipped a beat.

Will let you know if I find an additive that apparently works on reconstituting the separated gas samples. The startron package states it will work on re-constituting separated gas. So far, it hasnt happened.

Caveat Emptor

Steve

[Felton]

Nice to know about the startron. I guess I will only use sta-bil now.

gas

Maybe have the brown gas tested.The first thing that came to mind for me when I read your story was where do you buy your gas,did they just fill there tanks and the turbulence was still in motion.

Courtenay, I can say fir sure that
The ethanol separation occurred in my tank.
I have watched every ounce of gas go
In since July 08 when I started putting
Gas in via jerry cans. I watched all of
300 of so gals go in a funnel and would
Have seen the orange crap come out of the cans
During fill up.

I have also been very sure that the liquid
That appeared in my favors was ethanol.
The reason is that I called some very experienced
Mechanic friends on long island ny. They have been
Seeing the result of ethanol separation far more than
Me as they service hundreds of boats a season.
He descrbed the color, texture and effect of ethanol
Perfectly to me with out ever seeing my boat or
The condition of the gas in person. My local mechanic
Had the exact same diagnosis.

Since I wrote this thread, I have seen two
Buddies towed in with the same issue.
Both boats were sitting, then taken out
And would not run except at idle on the way
Out. Just like mine did.