F20 startup issue +video

[99yam40]

did you replace the needle and seat when you cleaned the carb?
If not where did the spare part needle come from you speak about?

have you measured the spare and the one installed to make sure they are both the same length?

[merc200dalarna]

I am thinking that someone else has been that carb before you and has the wrong needle and/or the wrong float installed.

If you tighten down the screw all the way and the float rises way to much...then the needle is bottoming out in the seat to soon...So it is the wrong length needle, the needle seat has moved out slightly ( highly doubt that..but anything is possible ) or the float is now misshapened somehow....or wrong float.

I would get a carb kit for it....

The motor is so new, though the previous owner was into moto-x. But still.

I measured the needle seat height on one of the pics, nothing that you react too?

Do any of you know the Keihin original name for this carb, model number???

I will get the carb kit over the winter, I know it runs now, and I'm confident it will sort things out.

You are helpful, what an awesome resource for helt and advice. Thanks.

[merc200dalarna]

was the motor doing this before you cleaned the carb?
Did you use a chemical to clean it?
maybe that rubber is swollen making it too thick pushing the float out of spec
is that rubber ball you talk about part of the needle?
maybe a close up pic of that will tell us something

Well, no, but it ran for a long long time. I cleaned the carb last winter, for the first time, using carb cleaner, european brand CTC. (ether I think) The ball I talk about is the backend part of the needle yes. It looks like the spare parts needle, nothing out of the ordinary.

Hmmm, this is getting weird.

[panasonic]

I am thinking that someone else has been that carb before you and has the wrong needle and/or the wrong float installed.

If you tighten down the screw all the way and the float rises way to much...then the needle is bottoming out in the seat to soon...So it is the wrong length needle, the needle seat has moved out slightly ( highly doubt that..but anything is possible ) or the float is now misshapened somehow....or wrong float.

I would get a carb kit for it....

[99yam40]

I can set the float paralell to the carb bottom, but I can not tighten the screw then.

And further, yes the pivot-pin is slightly higher on the side without the screw, but that is just because I can't tighten the screw.....if I do, well you saw the video. It raises the float with like 8mm or a 1/4 inch.. The float pin is straight as an arrow. Fishing was held back by a **** carburetor ; )
I'm the second owner, I just doubt it was replaced or anything.
Well, it started with me cleaning the carb. when re-installing I tightened the screw, but it didn't look right, so I losened it a bit to get the float flush with the carb surface. Time pased and the screw vibrated lose, which lead to my earlier post. So I tightened the screw, which lead to this post.....

was the motor doing this before you cleaned the carb?
Did you use a chemical to clean it?
maybe that rubber is swollen making it too thick pushing the float out of spec
is that rubber ball you talk about part of the needle?
maybe a close up pic of that will tell us something

[merc200dalarna]

What I cannot see, is when the pin is removed, AND YOU LIFT THE FLOAT UP(carb is upside down right now), DOES THE NEEDLE COME OUT WITH THE FLOAT?

Or is the NEEDLE staying in place?

**When you lift the float up and away from the carb, the NEEDLE SHOULD GO WITH IT (if properly installed)***

And areed 100% with Panasonic, that float, when properly installed, up side down SHOULD BE about even (the seam) with the machined flat part of the carb.


$ has it that spring is ATOP the needle/inbetween the float and needle...

Here's a You Tube Video showing how the spring should be installed and working properly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiexehn33kg


.

The needle follows the float, because of that little "omega"-shaped clip. (watch the pictures further down when I hold the float in my hand, you can see the needle attached via the omega-clip)The clip that cannot be fastened in any other way than in the groove of the needle, and up around the little plastic lip on the float.

Yes, on the back end of the needle, there is a blackened little ball that touches the plastic of the float. Sort of like a little spacer against the plastics of the float. If it is a spring loaded little ball, I haven't tested, but since I assume this is the original piece, it is probably spring loaded.

[merc200dalarna]

OK I just watched your video and looked at all the pictures. Here are my questions to you:
There is something definitely wrong with the float..its bottom surface should be parallel with the carb body... with carb upside down. So that is good...we are on to the problem.


In the very first picture....is the float pin
sitting right down in the notches in the carb? I looks as though that pin is up slightly on the left side, looking at the first picture ( the opposite side from the hold down screw)

Roll the float pin on a real flat surface see if it is bent...

Was that float ever replaced?...how did all this start?

And last but not least...I thought you were going fishing today?

I can set the float paralell to the carb bottom, but I can not tighten the screw then.

And further, yes the pivot-pin is slightly higher on the side without the screw, but that is just because I can't tighten the screw.....if I do, well you saw the video. It raises the float with like 8mm or a 1/4 inch.. The float pin is straight as an arrow. Fishing was held back by a **** carburetor ; )
I'm the second owner, I just doubt it was replaced or anything.
Well, it started with me cleaning the carb. when re-installing I tightened the screw, but it didn't look right, so I losened it a bit to get the float flush with the carb surface. Time pased and the screw vibrated lose, which lead to my earlier post. So I tightened the screw, which lead to this post.....

[TownsendsFJR1300]

What I cannot see, is when the pin is removed, AND YOU LIFT THE FLOAT UP(carb is upside down right now), DOES THE NEEDLE COME OUT WITH THE FLOAT?

Or is the NEEDLE staying in place?

**When you lift the float up and away from the carb, the NEEDLE SHOULD GO WITH IT (if properly installed)***

And areed 100% with Panasonic, that float, when properly installed, up side down SHOULD BE about even (the seam) with the machined flat part of the carb.


$ has it that spring is ATOP the needle/inbetween the float and needle...

Here's a You Tube Video showing how the spring should be installed and working properly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiexehn33kg


.

[panasonic]

OK I just watched your video and looked at all the pictures. Here are my questions to you:
There is something definitely wrong with the float..its bottom surface should be parallel with the carb body... with carb upside down. So that is good...we are on to the problem.


In the very first picture....is the float pin
sitting right down in the notches in the carb? I looks as though that pin is up slightly on the left side, looking at the first picture ( the opposite side from the hold down screw)

Roll the float pin on a real flat surface see if it is bent...

Was that float ever replaced?...how did all this start?

And last but not least...I thought you were going fishing today?

[merc200dalarna]

Here is some pictures, you should be able to zoom and the quality is all I got, I do not have the latest cellphone. A video will be on youtube later, where I demonstrate the heightening of the float as I screw in the screw, sorry for my foreign accent, LOL.

The needle "brass" seat measures ~2mm above carb body??? (0,078 inches as I switched on my digital caliper)
If that is the reason, what height should the seat be at?

And also, that lil clip between the needle and plastic float cannot be mounted wrong? I mean it is rather self explanatory where it grips on the needle, just by looking at the shape of it?

So if it isn't the needle seat that has shifted, I cannot see where my issue is?

Thank you all for taking interest and helping.

Photos: https://imgur.com/a/LXaUD

Video: https://youtu.be/wuBoxdmRVvo

[merc200dalarna]

My moneys on that clip then ... Nothing else it could be..

For the OP, the needle moves VERY, VERY LITTLE.. (I'm guessing maybe .030")..

That clip is there to prevent the needle from sticking UP inside the carb body. So it should be pulling the needle down wards (carb in normal position).

If that spring/retainer is IN-BETWEEN the needle and carb, that IS your problem..

Agreed too, a pic of how it's installed should tell the story...

.

OK! Well I looked at it and figured I couldn't go so wrong when installing it, but I probably have. It functions, but probably not as intended. I will check and video it, unsure when though.

[TownsendsFJR1300]

My moneys on that clip then ... Nothing else it could be..

For the OP, the needle moves VERY, VERY LITTLE.. (I'm guessing maybe .030")..

That clip is there to prevent the needle from sticking UP inside the carb body. So it should be pulling the needle down wards (carb in normal position).

If that spring/retainer is IN-BETWEEN the needle and carb, that IS your problem..

Agreed too, a pic of how it's installed should tell the story...

.

[panasonic]

For the carb, that screw should NOT be loose (as posted earlier). There is a clip, part #14, that may be installed in correctly:

2006 and Later F20MLH Yamaha Outboard CARBURETOR Diagram and Parts

Loosening that screw is simply dropping the float level. It is NOT meant as an adjustment. There should be a small metal tang On the float by the pin) that you can adjust (bend slightly to spec's) to adjust the float height (while the carb is upside down). I've had carbs with a piece of crap in-between the seat and the needle causing havoc too...

The fuel pump is AFTER the filter assembly and before the carb. I've never seen a return line with a carb, I suspect there's either simply low pressure (say 15 PSI) or a regulator (not likely). The carb needle ALONE should be enough to close off incoming fuel once the bowl is full..

That engine is NOT FIXED and will eventually get you stranded once that screw vibrates out and the engine floods...

As for the fuel pump Pat, looking at the parts diagram, I don't think that pump is MECHANICALLY driven like the F150, but vacuum (IE, engine must be running to pump). I might be missing something in the pic's but most of the little engines use vacuum(I could very well be wrong).
But he has fuel NOW, the carb still isn't right... Have to get the basic's down first before moving to other issues..
.

Mechanical fuel pump, 7 PSI.

[merc200dalarna]

Do you have the service manual for this engine??? If not here is the link to it.

https://www.vansoutboardparts.com/se...a-shop-manuals

Yes, I got it of that link that probably were posted by you I guess. And I read about the float, and the clean the carb, and the testing the primer start.

[panasonic]

Sorry for the many posts, but multiquotes won't work for me.

Do you have the service manual for this engine??? If not here is the link to it.

https://www.vansoutboardparts.com/se...a-shop-manuals