2005-2006 300 HPDI help

[tallimeca]

First issue is serial number says it is a 2005, however, parts dont match. Parts match 2006. Yamaha hasnt provided a solid answer on this. Problem I have with parts is control bracket has 3 switches... 1 on the bottom, one in the middle on the outside, one forward of that on the block side. What I was told was in N, engine idles and cuts cyl 2 and 3. When taken out of neutral, 2 and 3 kicks in. what is the function of the bottom switch and the forward switch. A 2005 only shows the bottom and neutral switch.

The issue with the boat was the shifter and throttle cables were binding, so we replaced them. Next trip out was running fine, all in the sudden wouldnt go over about 2500. limped back to dock. changed all external filters, pulled vst, was clean but changed filter, checked all plugs, scoped all cylinders, compression was nearly identicle on each cylinder, checked plug boot resistance, inspected wiring and grounds. Readjusted cables to make sure contol in neutral when shifter in. Found metal tab on forward most micro switch funky. tested switch.... normally open, closed when contacted. Started and ran on muffs, all cylinders fired when put in gear, 2 and 3 cut out in neutral. only ran it to 1500 on muffs. Tried 4 times and worked....... then 2 and 3 wouldnt come back on no matter what. we removed the 2 top micro switches and manually activated them and still wouldnt work. came to conclusion that there is something either putting the engine in a "limp mode" or some sensor or switch which feeds the ecu is an issue, the ecu is an issue, or the cdi command box is an issue. Boat finally sent to dealer who hasnt had luck. waiting for a new forward switch to come in to set everything and retest. Any insite would be appreciated.

[bajakeith]

Buy a _____

Yammys SUCK !!

[rodbolt17]

your motor has 2 shift position switchs and 1 shift cut switch.
the ECU now gets information as to fed or rev selected.
why? who knows.

but they are simple on or off switchs.

they can be monitored with YDS.

[boscoe99]

What is the complete engine identification?

You might have a 2006 model year motor that was made in 2005. Not uncommon at all. 2017 Ford's are becoming available at dealers and we are still in 2016.

[tallimeca]

thanks

thanks for any feedback. The shift cut switch should be the bottom switch?That bracket sits on a pivot with a torsion spring, it barely moves at all. im guessing when the shifter is moved, this bracket wiggles and whacks that switch.... dripping another cylinder (cylinder 4??). So if these switches are functioning and the cylinders arent kicking in, the problem is in the ecu or beyond?

[rodbolt17]

why not simply monitor them with the laptop?
the shift position switchs simply supply information to the ECU as to in gear or not and which gear.
the shift cut is only used when coming out of an ingear position and misfires the engine to allow the shift clutch to disengage easily.

if the ECU sees an in gear position AND a start signal it locks the ign and you can only make about 2300 RPM or so.

if the ECU never sees an in gear position it drops 2-4 cylinders depending on RPM.

[tallimeca]

laptop

it's at the dealer now. So far, their issue is the fact it says it's a 2005 but a 2005 only showed 2 switches. They ordered the forward switch based off the 06, but it's not gonna be avail till the 15th. The tech said he don't believe these switches are the issue just a pita to have to manually engage and disengage because the tab is junk while he's trying to test.

[tallimeca]

What is the complete engine identification?

You might have a 2006 model year motor that was made in 2005. Not uncommon at all. 2017 Ford's are becoming available at dealers and we are still in 2016.

That is basically what yamaha is saying, which you are correct, not uncommon. But when you look up the parts based off the engine id tag, they don't jive. Not sure if diagnostics and specs are different between the 05 and 06. I had a service manual for an 05....that's what I was looking for as far as parts and specs.

I was just curious as to what the switches were and how they were supposed to work compared to how I was interpreting them.

[tallimeca]

why not simply monitor them with the laptop?
the shift position switchs simply supply information to the ECU as to in gear or not and which gear.
the shift cut is only used when coming out of an in gear position and misfires the engine to allow the shift clutch to disengage easily.

if the ECU sees an in gear position AND a start signal it locks the ign and you can only make about 2300 RPM or so.

if the ECU never sees an in gear position it drops 2-4 cylinders depending on RPM.

So if the ecu is getting the signal from the switches, and yds confirms this, but the problem persists.... One would assume there is an issue with the ecu commanding the firing of the cylinders.... or there are also other inputs to the ecu interrupting this?

Someone mentioned that when the engine cranks to start, the ecu relies on battery voltage until the engine fires, where the relay kicks over and the stator then powers the ecu. If the stator was faulty, that could cause the ecu to go into a safe mode....BUT.... I was told that if the ecu is in safe mode , it would only be caused by low fuel pressure on the hp pump, an overheat issue, or a low oil issue and an alarm will sound, which it is not doing.

[99yam40]

why not post the complete engine identification as he asked?

You can go what if all over the place, but why do it.
see what the ECU is seeing, and go from there

[tallimeca]

question

just thought of something I meant to ask..... on this 3 switch control bracket....when you put the motor into forward.... is the forward switch supposed to stay engaged while in forward? The reason why I asked because what I seen happening on the bracket, it comes out of neutral (which disengages the switch)...then slides into forward (which engages the switch) BUT.... goes by the forward switch when fully in gear and the the switch opens again....

Is this supposed to work like this?

[tallimeca]

why not post the complete engine identification as he asked?

You can go what if all over the place, but why do it.
see what the ECU is seeing, and go from there

No, I get it, I'm looking for it. I had a picture of the tag on my phone but I can't find the friggen thing!!! The boat is at the dealership.

[rodbolt17]

remove the flywheel.
remove the stator.
toss stator in the creek.
reinstall flywheel
start engine and run it till the battery dies.

your info on the stator is garbage at best.

the Z motor relys on 12V from the keyswitch for ECU powerup and 12V from the main relay for various pumps,switch's and drivers.

when cranking the ECU receives a cranking signal from a splice in the brown start relay wire.

this tells the ecu the engine is cranking and to fix the computer map to cranking.

the ONLY things that will set the ECU in safe mode are low oil and overheat. the alarm will sound for those two as well as low battery voltage,cranking with the lanyard removed water in the fuel.
low fuel pressure will NOT set any safe modes.
will run like crap,if at all but no alarms nor RPM reduction.

the spark is a 12v transistor ign type.
the transistors simply turn on and off.
the ign coil doesn't know if it's current is switched by a mechanical set of points or a transistor switch.

odds of weak spark on 3 are slim.
methinks your not using an actual spark tester.

the ECU can shut off various cylinders BASED on inputs from the shift position switchs OR it can misfire for RPM reduction.

it DOES not and CANNOT monitor did the spark actually jump the gap.\

all the firing of a cyl on YDS means is the ECU will or will not allow certain cylinders to spark.

it is not in the service manual nor in any training literature but if the shift position switch is open(off) the ECU "sees" this as it is in gear.
if the ECU "sees" it is in gear and cranking and starts the ECU KNOWS something failed as this cannot happen. (actually it physically can but it is not supposed to)

the ECU will now limit rpm to about 2300 RPM depending on the load.
this is NOT a rev limit nor an RPM reduction.

on the Z300 if the shift position stays closed(on) the ecu never saw the shift and thinks it is still in the N position.
so now it drops cyl 2&3, if the throttle is advanced beyond about 1700 the ECU shuts off cyl's 2,3 5 and 6.

low battery voltage can cause all sorts of stuff,loss of ign,loss of injector drivers,loss of VST fuel pressure,loss of correct 5V reference to various sensors and a losss of the ECU.
at about 9 v the system simply shuts down.

you really really need to be carful who you get HPDI information from.

[tallimeca]

thanks

Rodbolt, thanks for all the info. Frankly, it became over my head without the diagnostic software and test leads I needed so off to the dealer it went. It is just driving me CRAZY... Hopefully the find the issue sooner than later. Might take a run to the dealer to get the numbers to post.

[rodbolt17]

the manufacture date is on the stbd bracket.
all it means is the moth and year of manufacture.
has NOTHING to do with MODEL year.
my 70 w-30 442 was made in sep of 69.
while the 69 and the 70 w30 cars shared similarities the were NOT identical.

if your MODEL code located on the PORT bracket ends in D it is an 05.
if it ends in R it is an 06.
for the 06 and later US market they dropped the 4 alpha character went to 3 alpha characters and dropped year models.

on a 12V TCI ign why would the stator have anything tpo do with engine running other than keeping the battery charged ??????