F225TXRD Fuel Pump Driver Isolator

[fairdeal]

aha! happy ending

well, different - but more satisfying results this time around.

I must have been using a "bad" test lead this morning - or repeatedly missed making good connections.

Anyway, I just went back to the motor to take a stab at that "grounding both" theory.

Set up test leads as follows:
12V+ to R/Y
ground to B
ground to B/W
voltmeter to L/W

other voltmeter lead to 12V+

My plan was to turn on the battery switch, then watch the voltmeter while I also grounded L/R.

But when I came back to the engine after turning on the power, the meter was already showing 12V -

with just four leads connected to the driver!

So: grounding the B/W wire also grounds the L/W wire!


(its hard to see the black test lead connected to the black wire in the plug
the white lead is 12v to the red/yellow wire
the yellow lead is also ground, to the black/white wire
the green connects the meter to blue/white)


While I was at it, I moveded the leads and confirmed what I saw this morning:
grounding L/R also grounds L


so the mystery is solved;

the ECM "turns on" the LP pump by grounding the black/white wire
and "turns on" the HP pump by grounding the blue/red wire

[boscoe99]

so the mystery is solved;

the ECM "turns on" the LP pump by grounding the black/white wire
and "turns on" the HP pump by grounding the blue/red wire

So, do you agree with what is written? This illustration has been updated to include your information.

[rodbolt17]

methinks someone does not have a clue on voltage,voltage drop and CURRENT flow.
all have a job.
most techs have no clue how to use a multi meter cause they wont think, they wont self teach and the school sucks.

in 30 min I could show you more how to use your meter to get actual what you need to know readings than an entire week at yamahas electrical school.

but mostly for outboard use, voltage(pressure) where are your measuring points?

kinda like this months ONBOARD Yamaha rag.
coulda been written by a thirdgrader.
TWO of the articilcs are flat out simply mind boggling WRONG.

no one at my shop has figured it out.

but it is WRONG.

bad enough that no one at Kennesaw can acutally splain how to use a DVOM, makes it worse when the PUBLISH stupid stuff that is wrong.

[boscoe99]

methinks someone does not have a clue on voltage,voltage drop and CURRENT flow.
all have a job.
most techs have no clue how to use a multi meter cause they wont think, they wont self teach and the school sucks.

in 30 min I could show you more how to use your meter to get actual what you need to know readings than an entire week at yamahas electrical school.

but mostly for outboard use, voltage(pressure) where are your measuring points?

kinda like this months ONBOARD Yamaha rag.
coulda been written by a thirdgrader.
TWO of the articilcs are flat out simply mind boggling WRONG.

no one at my shop has figured it out.

but it is WRONG.

bad enough that no one at Kennesaw can acutally splain how to use a DVOM, makes it worse when the PUBLISH stupid stuff that is wrong.

Are you speaking of the March 2016 edition?

[fairdeal]

So, do you agree with what is written? This illustration has been updated to include your information.

yes, I agree, that is what today's testing demonstrated.

You just have "L" and "H" reversed in two of the legends - see green circles:

[boscoe99]

yes, I agree, that is what today's testing demonstrated.

You just have "L" and "H" reversed in two of the legends - see green circles:

Good catch. I have updated the diagram.

Too bad Yamaha won't update their mistakes.

[GulfCoastMech]

Well problem solved it was the Driver. Plugged new one in and worked perfectly. Thanks for all the input!... My original post I was trying to ask simply if there was a way to test the two cpu wires for a signal to make sure blue/red was coming on for 5 seconds at start and both wires were giving the signal at the correct times matched by specs given in the service manual or.... A publicized bench test for the driver. I'm pretty sure that before that part goes out it is tested... ie there should be a bench test procedure unless of course they plug into a mock Yama fuel pump system stamp it with an inspection mark and call it a day.

I may have confused some people with how or the way I explained?

I only explained what I was testing the circuits with because I was questioned about my equipment and as I said, I'm not an electrical genius nor do I claim to know everything about Yamaha electrical systems....but I did go to school for outboards, do have factory certifications from multiple other brands, studied with and keep up with current ABYC standards for anything I wire inside or on a boat and am very competent with what I do. I did not know that Yamaha had an electrical systems training manual. I'd love to have a part number on that if available? We may have tested different than that manual would have suggested but at the end of the day it's like water, it flows in and it flows out. I'm not bad with a multimeter if called for in a factory published test. My buddy that works on these with me at my shop is not bad with the power probe. I may have used frequency in the wrong forum or the wrong way on a Yamaha but with a power pro you can test injector pulsewidth and frequency from injector drivers and tons of other things so we figured w.t.h maybe it would capture a signal? and yes that 5 second reading we got was the ticket to ruling out the cpu. We were at least at 99.9% sure.We had no other way of testing it without the benefit of a Yamaha electronics training manual, help from an expert, or a service manual with a better suggestion than a static test from a lap top that turns the pumps on and off which is completely null in this case because both pumps were constantly on when both hooked up. Obviously we knew one or both were grounded incorrectly because of the fact they were running all the time And manual said they weren't supposed to do that. The test we did told us that the interval pulses were coming through, at the correct times, for the correct amount of times at least. Most shops around me would have sent the cpu out to have it checked swapped parts if it was a Yama dealer or like the last shop remove and replace every component related to the problem at the customers expense....only to say "New C.P.U. might fix it?" We traced it to a driver we knew nothing about and took the time to solve with minimal cost in parts for the customer without damaging the electronics any further. So win for the customer and for us.

Again I appreciate all the input and information that is available on this forum! I still would love to know how to test the signals correctly coming from the C.P.U. on Yama's so maybe when there is a problem I can pick up business from local shops in my area that should be specializing in changing gear lube and doing impeller changes so when they screw that up I get the easy quick money instead of what we get...Motors that have floated around certified dealerships and shops for months before they get to us modified broken bolts or just a basket of parts with a desperate and frustrated customer.

[rodbolt17]

an injector test on a running engine?
yes I use the Hz setting on my meter.

why you ask?
cause I know about how many ms I am looking for at idle if its a paired firing or a sequential fired system.

if you don't know then all you see is its fireing.

that driver is a simple relay.
you use a relay so a small control current can operate a larger current drawing device.

keeps the overall current(heat) out of the ECU.

to test a relay.
hookup the operating +&-.
attach the multi meter leads using the Ohms function on the outputs.
hook up the operating circuit path.
watch the meter.

its pretty simple and I did explain how to bench test it.

the Yamaha electrical systems manual as well as the advanced tyrouble shooting manual is readily avalible.
have your dealership send you to the school and you get it for free.

in the driver case we know that the l/w and the l/r leads go to ground to operate the pumps.
hook r/y+to black-.
attach meter leads l/w to B. use ohms scale.
ground b/w or L/r and see if the relay contacts closed.

there are NO signals involved its simply a discrete switch.
its grounded or not.
open or closed.

none of this is in any service manual.
it comes from years of observation and a few years of actual training, most of it as an FC in the USN.

however trons are simply trons and they don't care who manufactured the product.

a trained tech in this case should have taken 30 min or so to diagnose.

a trained tech would have known the LP pump does not run at key on,in this case it did. WHY?
a trained tech would have known the LP runs 10 seconds on 20 seconds off below 1200 RPM. if it runs constantly below 1200 there is a problem.WHY?

if that LP runs at key on or constant below 1200 RPM the ECU failed and is applying the ground path to the driver constantly,the ECU to driver wire is shorted or the driver failed.
that observation should have taken 5 min.
next step,checking the ground path from the ECU.
this requires the OHMS scale and a paper clip.
checking for a ground path from the driver control wires at the driver connector to the engine block.
another 10 min wasted.

see how easy this is?
however it does require a working knowledge of how the system works.
observation of what is not working as designed.
then asking yourself why?
do not ever jump to a single conclusion.
always ask why as compared to how it works.

[boscoe99]

What On Board manual has the errors?

[boscoe99]

Well problem solved it was the Driver. Thanks for the feedback. Glad you solved the problem.

My original post I was trying to ask simply if there was a way to test the two cpu wires for a signal to make sure blue/red was coming on for 5 seconds at start and both wires were giving the signal at the correct times matched by specs given in the service manual only test is to know what the ECU is doing (applying a ground) and to check for it.

or.... A publicized bench test for the driver. No tests from Yamaha.

there should be a bench test procedure Yes, there should be but...

I did go to school for outboards, do have factory certifications from multiple other brands, studied with and keep up with current ABYC standards Are you working for a Yamaha dealer? Have you been to the Yamaha school house?

I did not know that Yamaha had an electrical systems training manual. It is provided to mechanics that work for Yamaha dealers and who attend the Yamaha school.

Most shops around me would have sent the cpu out (there is no where to send the ECU to be checked) to have it checked swapped parts if it was a Yama dealer or like the last shop remove and replace every component related to the problem at the customers expense....only to say "New C.P.U. might fix it?"

We traced it to a driver we knew nothing about and took the time to solve with minimal cost in parts for the customer without damaging the electronics any further. So win for the customer and for us. What Yamaha calls a driver in this application is really just a relay. Lots of folks don't know of or have heard the term driver.

Again I appreciate all the input and information that is available on this forum! I still would love to know how to test the signals correctly coming from the C.P.U. on Yama's With a few exceptions most CDI's and ECU's from Yamaha apply a ground to operate a device. In lieu of the ECU applying the ground a mechanic can apply one to see if the part works. This is what sourdeal reported that he did to make the driver and the pumps work.

If you are not working for a Yamaha dealer and have not been trained in the ways of Yamaha remember what was said about the CDI/ECU. Most apply a ground to operate a device. Exceptions being the trim and tilt system and the starter motor. And maybe some relays.

Important facts to remember:

- Red wire is for battery power
- Yellow wire is for battery power across a key switch. Some times out of a CDI/ECU.
- Black wire is ground.
- Red wire with a yellow tracer is generally battery power after the key switch and after a fuse or power relay.
- Yamaha is notorious for changing wire colours across connectors. Note that the wires to the LP and HP pumps change at the connector to each pump.
- And did I mention that Yamaha uses ground to activate devices?

If you have any questions holler.

[rodbolt17]

sounds like we are dealing with an MMI grad.
that bites.
dunno much about MMI other than I and the marina I work for have hired 5.
fired all 5.
they were a danger to themselves and others.

a few years back I applied for an instructor position at MMI.
they were willing to pay me 28K per year.

I laughed and walked away.

but for the dedicated wanting to learn trainee, I usually hold their hands.

just never ask me the same question twice.

yes the march 2016 Yamaha onboard rag mag has TWO articles that are simply WRONG .
did I SAY wrong.

yall figure it out and post what I saw was wrong wrong.

[boscoe99]

kinda like this months ONBOARD Yamaha rag.
coulda been written by a thirdgrader.
TWO of the articilcs are flat out simply mind boggling WRONG.

no one at my shop has figured it out.

but it is WRONG.

bad enough that no one at Kennesaw can acutally splain how to use a DVOM, makes it worse when the PUBLISH stupid stuff that is wrong.

OK, it is all above my pay grade. What precisely is at fault in the On Board magazine? Which specific article? I will post them here and then we shall see if anyone else picks up on the error that you mention. Maybe we shall all learn a thing or two.

[rodbolt17]

hahahaha
not gonna tell ya.
its the march 2016 rag mag, two articles for troubleshooting are simply blatantly WRONG.
you read it and post which articles.


but yep the writers at Kennesaw simply published incorrect information.

[zenoahphobic]

hahahaha
not gonna tell ya.
its the march 2016 rag mag, two articles for troubleshooting are simply blatantly WRONG.
you read it and post which articles.


but yep the writers at Kennesaw simply published incorrect information.

Does this relate to the "shunt" article Boscoe is quizzing?. I have responded to that before reading this background thread.

I guess we all better read everything printed in the world in case someone finds something wrong. Oftentimes, the problem is simply misinterpretation, personal bias and language, not necessarily "wrong".

[rodbolt17]

I am used to news stories simply being wrong.
when you publish technical data stories dealing with troubleshooting your product it might pay to do it right.