yamaha 90TLRA charging/running volts output?

[SeaDawg3]

Hi zeno,
I`m not out of the woods yet, fingers crossed.
I`ll know more on the next ride when I can cruise above 3500 rpms.

so far with the engine idling and viewing 14.6, with approx same at the battery 14.55v, after shut down I switch to the back of the boat by the battery and watched the V`s settle to 13.5... When operating the trim to raise engine for the day/night. I viewed 13.10 after a 1/2 minute or so...

I`d say she was fully charged. I have not checked it since, But I`m sure the battery settled into 12.7-8v...

Looking forward to tomorrows ride weather permitting, then I`ll update.

[boscoe99]

So, was it the battery or cleaning of the connections that have caused the difference in voltage to be seen?

Waiting to see the results when you run the boat at power for a period of time.

[SeaDawg3]

So, was it the battery or cleaning of the connections that have caused the difference in voltage to be seen?

Waiting to see the results when you run the boat at power for a period of time.

the jury is still out on that one.
The battery negative cable to starter bracket bolt, lock washer, washer, Ground eyelet, washer were spotless.

I suspect the hardware is either new or thoroughly cleaned. there was no loctite. the bolt was tight.

there was also a clear grease, maybe dielectric, or synthetic super grease smeared on the bolt top then capped with the rubber protector....

remember I suspected that this engine was worked on recently from the PO.

[SeaDawg3]

update:
If I were a betting man I`d say both. Ground connection to starter bracket and Battery.

todays ride approx 1.5 - 2.0 hrs.

1 - voltage never went over 14.8 at any time.
2 - voltage only dropped to 14.4 when loading the system with VFH (on), GPS (on), Fusion radio (on)
3 - I noticed right away::: when radio is cranked up, it did not cut out/off when using the trim!!! W O W!!!
4 - when returning to the dock and sitting tied up and idling. this was the max volts on the MF gauge of 14.8. while underway the majority of the time it read dead on 14.6, with a .2 drop depending on radio volume.

5 - using the trim only made the volts drop in tenths, not whole volts like before.

synopsis:

I suspect whomever re attached the ground to starter bracket that when applying some form of grease, Maybe bc the grease melted or liquefied during operation leached in between the contact patch. weakening the current flow. EVEN though the bolt/washers/eyelet/bracket were very clean.

since the walmart batterys were also suspect even though one was new.

my comments on the starting battery. It is possible that the chemical composition of the flooded acid "sealed" battery and or less internal resistance for the REG/REC to sense and operate correctly.

and lastly. This new data and ultimately repair is with a new smaller Deep Cycle battery.
500CCA
615 MCA
150 min Res.
75ah
flooded

contrary to popular belief and some have stated their comments as "fact" even without showing proof of such.

amazing how 2 components made the ghosts go away...

so far!...

[boscoe99]

update:
If I were a betting man I`d say both. Ground connection to starter bracket and Battery.

todays ride approx 1.5 - 2.0 hrs.

1 - voltage never went over 14.8 at any time. Excellent.
2 - voltage only dropped to 14.4 when loading the system with VFH (on), GPS (on), Fusion radio (on) To be expected. The greater the load(s) the greater the voltage drop.
3 - I noticed right away::: when radio is cranked up, it did not cut out/off when using the trim!!! W O W!!! Improved grounds improved (diminished) the voltage drop causing the radio to not cut out due to low voltage.
4 - when returning to the dock and sitting tied up and idling. this was the max volts on the MF gauge of 14.8. while underway the majority of the time it read dead on 14.6, with a .2 drop depending on radio volume.

5 - using the trim only made the volts drop in tenths, not whole volts like before. Better ground the better the voltage drop (less voltage drop).

synopsis:

I suspect whomever re attached the ground to starter bracket that when applying some form of grease, Maybe bc the grease melted or liquefied during operation leached in between the contact patch. weakening the current flow. EVEN though the bolt/washers/eyelet/bracket were very clean. I don't doubt this for a new york minute.

since the walmart batterys were also suspect even though one was new.

my comments on the starting battery. It is possible that the chemical composition of the flooded acid "sealed" battery and or less internal resistance for the REG/REC to sense and operate correctly. Don't think so but I won't argue against this theory.

and lastly. This new data and ultimately repair is with a new smaller Deep Cycle battery.
500CCA
615 MCA
150 min Res.
75ah
flooded

contrary to popular belief and some have stated their comments as "fact" even without showing proof of such.

amazing how 2 components made the ghosts go away...

so far!...

In a Permanent Magnetic Generation system (ala a Yamaha motorcycle type of system) excess current is shunted (sent) to ground to reduce the voltage. If the ground system was compromised (seems to be your case) so that the excess current could not readily flow to the ground system then the regulator could not bring the voltage down as it is supposed to do.

Now here is what is going to happen. Someone will see the Yamaha specs for an F90 regulator which is 15 volts. Their motor may only output the same as yours, 14.8 volts. They will complain that their regulator is defective since it is not up to specification.

Guess you are a happy man now.

[boscoe99]

Oh, let me start a new discussion. Why are your tachometer and speedometer backwards?

[SeaDawg3]

yes happy camper! hopefully the issue is resolved.

I hear you on the ground continuity.
I was copacetic with the slight voltage rise. Remember the highest spike was with the new starting (sealed) battery.

My basis on the battery chemistry was while looking for a cause and being brainwashed to the ***xx`s of posts and thread read on various forums.
AND no one had a conclusive answer, just conjecture...
Deep cycle = no/yes etc etc...
internal resistance more/less, battery chemistry blah blah blah...

walmart battery that were suspect...

and finding a clean. but just how clean.

washed off the grease with electrical cleaner, scuffed the starter bracket, scuffed the eyelet, cleaned the hardware, a drop of 242 on the threads and wala!

whoduhthunk...lol... hahahahahahahaha


ground bolt was not loose, looked clean, no corrosion or rust or over use of thread locking compound, there was none...

leads me to believe the ground cable was once disconnected...

ok...


speedo/tach...

originally with the analog gauges the speedo was on the Port and the tach was on the starboard. I grew accustomed to this.

easy peasy, just a matter of preferences...

[boscoe99]

My thinking is that one could get three or more lead acid batteries of every conceivable type (serviceable flooded lead acid [starting, deep cycle, dual purpose], maintenance free flooded lead acid [starting, deep cycle, dual purpose], AGM lead acid [starting, deep cycle, dual purpose]), etc., etc., and find there may be differences with a given type and commonalities across different types.

Generally, it is the wiring (ground/ground/ground)that is causing issues and not the battery type. Just like it is not gasoline that is generally the problem it is the system that delivers the gasoline that causes problems.

Just my thinking however. I was wrong once and might be wrong again in the future. Or now.

[zenoahphobic]

And there is no such thing as an electrical fault; they are always broken down to mechanical failures.

[SeaDawg3]

My thinking is that one could get three or more lead acid batteries of every conceivable type (serviceable flooded lead acid [starting, deep cycle, dual purpose], maintenance free flooded lead acid [starting, deep cycle, dual purpose], AGM lead acid [starting, deep cycle, dual purpose]), etc., etc., and find there may be differences with a given type and commonalities across different types.

Generally, it is the wiring (ground/ground/ground)that is causing issues and not the battery type. Just like it is not gasoline that is generally the problem it is the system that delivers the gasoline that causes problems.

Just my thinking however. I was wrong once and might be wrong again in the future. Or now.

agreed.
I wouldn`t say you were wrong.
but if "you" disassembled the ground bolt and saw first hand how clean it all was for I only have my word and integrity to vouch.

That`s why I`ll accept it was the combination or culmination of several things.

I`ll be the first to admit if I made an error. otherwise I`d only be fooling my self...

being the ground lead is one of importance, there were absolutley no issue cranking over the engine with the various CCA sizes. True more grunt was exhibited with the larger battery... but this is all moot now.

will we ever know "why" sealed batteries are not recommended?
will we ever know "why" people say, OH NOOO don`t use a Deep Cycle battery
will we ever know "what" was the single issue that caused this unkown?

probably not on all counts.

funny thing is when I first "saw" a voltage drop, excessive my opinion, when operating the trim. The consensus was that system uses a lot of juice/amps. especially an old tired system. The boat did not have a Volt gauge, the hired tech did not say anything about any other gauges or sources cutting out/off. upon getting the boat home to my garage is when I installed a V gauge as I think it is a necc item, thus seeing the drop...
MY first experienced thought was the ground, and when I went through the electrical on the engine. the starter terminals were clean and tight... maybe at that point of discovery I should have just removed the lugs and inspected/cleaned/reinstalled and maybe it would have avoided the following.

[rodbolt17]

not all outboards use a regulator rectifier.
hence for years sealed batteries were not recommended as at long periods of WOT they tended to boil the water out.

not ALL Yamaha outboards were cleared to use agm or dry cell batteries.

its still model specific.
but yall run what ya wish.

[SeaDawg3]

not all outboards use a regulator rectifier. true, this 90hp does
hence for years sealed batteries were not recommended as at long periods of WOT they tended to boil the water out. true again, as to why flooded batteries are used to replenish fluids

not ALL Yamaha outboards were cleared to use agm or dry cell batteries.
until Yamaha now says they can. I would still think discretion and common sense be used.

its still model specific. true again
but yall run what ya wish.

technology changes. and I`m a firm non believer of> bc the interweb says so.

but I`ve run Oddy AGM`s without any issues whatsoever in a working charging system no exceeding 14.6/7 for years.

and But (again) in this case a flooded battery is used.

I do not see any warning in the OM avoiding deep cycle batterys that are flooded.

also this new battery is listed as Starting/ignition/lighting which i thought was odd for a deep cycle battery, but hey that`s what it says.

Voltage: 12
Format: BCI Group 24M
Lead Acid Type: Deep Cycle
Cold Cranking Amps: 500
Battery Type: Basic
Capacity 20hr: 75AH
Chemistry: Lead Acid
Cranking Amps: 615
Lead Acid Design: Flooded
Made in the USA: True
Maintenance Free: No
Marine Cranking Amps: 615
Product Category: Marine/RV
Product Sub Category: Starting Lighting And Ignition
Terminal Type: DT, SAE/M8 Stud, SAE/M8 Threaded Post, WNT

[boscoe99]

And there is no such thing as an electrical fault; they are always broken down to mechanical failures.

A failed diode is a mechanical failure in what way?

[zenoahphobic]

A failed diode is a mechanical failure in what way?

If you break apart the plastic outer of the diode and get to the actual bit that is the workings you will find breakage in the P and N junction of the semiconductor.
That is you will see the mechanical failure. You can compare the difference between a broken one with a non broken one looking at their junctions.

[zenoahphobic]

If you accept that all things electrical involve the movement of electrons, then you will realize that they electrons are practically in destructible (very indestructible).
So any electrical fault involves some impedence to the ability of the electrons to move in the way intended by the human designed "circuit". And that usually means that they are either halted (as in a fuse blowing, connection becoming loose for instance) or they have taken another unintended path (such as a short, movement of wire contacting another conductor etc.)