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2004 F115 IAC Valve Question

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  • 2004 F115 IAC Valve Question

    2004 F115 TXRC with the ever so popular sluggish 3500-4000 RPM symptoms. I have been honing my skills in becoming a Internet Outboard Mechanic and doing lots of research and buying parts and replacing stuff based on the statistics of what others have done to solve their issues.

    The short version of the question / issue? Running rough at 3.5-4K and inconsistent misfire. Cleaned/flushed fuel system, all new filters, new spark plugs, injectors sent out and prof. cleaned and tested. 42 PSI at shrader on fuel rail. Disconnected the IAC and problems go away. I think I answered my own question but don't want to assume too far on such an expensive part and also knowing the ECU should also be questioned. Thoughts?

    Lots of different things that led me to this so sorry in advance if this seems long but could matter? Boat has not been in the water for a month except for testing and testing in a tank in the driveway.

    History (if you have time to read it):
    68 hours on this motor and I have only run it for the last 8. Fuel tank was emptied by the person I bought it from and claim that all filters were changed. First run of the boat went great. Cold water lake on a 60 degree day *****ing mostly but opened it up a couple of times. Trip 2 was to the saltwater. Again ocean temps were colder month ago but on this trip after a couple of short runs, it started to hesitate when trying to get up on plane.

    Got home and the water separator was 1/2 full of water. I also noticed my oil had gas it it. Thermostat was frozen wide open. Changed that and the oil/filter and on my test it has held clean. Have not had it out since though.

    I started it up on the muffs and noticed it ran ok but did not seem right. Got it into my test tank and idled it up a bit then noticed it was misfiring at the 4K mark and above. Took down to the local lake and ran it to confirm that it was bogging down at 3.5-4K and struggled to get up on plane.

    After researching this, I suspected that the fuel system needed to be gone through. I replaced the water separating filter already with the yamaha one. The previous was a generic and shorter (although listed as 10 micron), fuel filter on the motor b4 the LPP, the one between the LPP and HPP, pulled the VST and changed that filter (was not dirty though had some particles from what looked like one of the screws in there corroding), sprayed out all the lines with seafoam and compressed air a couple of times, and send out all of the injectors to be cleaned and tested. All but one tested well before and after and all at 100% on return.

    I did pressure test the rail and found it to be 42-44 PSI at 4000 RPM and 39 PSI at idle. I have tested separately on a second independant tank of fuel and put a clear line to the low pressure pump for testing and confirmed that no air is getting through to that point. No visible leaks anywhere on the fuel system running or not.

    Still ran the same after all that work / parts. All things i don't regret doing though as I want that confidence in that they are clean and operating.

    I saw some posts regarding the IAC valved being problematic only more so in regards to returning to idle. It does make a noise when turning the engine off and does idle ok at about 800rpms. I figured it was ez enough to clean so I pulled it out and sprayed some seafoam into it and let it sit overnight. Did not look dirty and could push on the end and feel it plunge. Put it back in today to do some more testing (fuel pressure again) and in the process forgot to plug it back in. ***, it ran great again. No misfire and although I did not take it above 4K in the test tank, at 4K it sounded good. I wondered if my test purged some air from the system and then noticed I forgot to plug the IAC back in. Once I did it returned to running poorly again.

    I know the best course of action is likely going to be to bring this to a mechanic. I'm not looking for any silver bullet answers but do most of my own work as long as I have the tools and time to take on the task(s). Might not always be the quickest or cheapest option but gives me a sense of understanding of what I have and how it works. It took me years to find a good auto mechanic and he is very fair and honest with me. Have not found an outboard mechanic that I can say the same about and have been burned 3 times in the past from bad workmanship.

    Some other info includes: high pressure pump does start up when key is engaged, water is passing through the system, engine warm but touchable, water is pumping through the cooling system, all fuses appear OK, full voltage from batteries, spark plugs each getting spark, all yamaha filters, oil, lubes, purged fuel tank completely (all gas was in good shape with no water), fresh gas put in with ring free and startron. Primer bulb pumps fuel and does not flatten out but I might replace it just the same as I have had these fail for me and it is an big dependency on such a cheap part to replace.

  • #2
    ...

    Hopefully I did not scare anyone with the size of my post.

    Really questioning how to check the IAC / ECU. Running with it (IAC) connected: motor bogs and sputters at 4K. Without it, runs good (2 minute test anyways).

    I'm going to order the cables and yds software to plug in but not too confident that I will get enough info based on the year of this motor. Nearest dealer with a yamaha master tech (that I could trust) is 3 weeks out just to drop my boat off to them.

    UPDATE: I just noticed that I did not change one of the filters. 68V-14511 which looks like it goes between the vst and the vacuum line on the back of the intake. What is this for?
    Last edited by NHAngler; 07-03-2013, 08:24 AM.

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    • #3
      Hopefully Rodbolt17 will see your post and give some advice and info

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      • #4
        once you get the YDS setup, do an active and static test.
        if the ISC valve sticks it can cause issues with the ECU.
        but it sounds like you still have a fuel issue.
        that filter is for the charcoal canister vent.

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        • #5
          FWIW I cant see the IAC valve causing issues at 3-4,000 RPM, From my understanding it is exactly what it says, an Idle air control valve. Once the throttles are opened the IAC becomes redundant.
          Last edited by JONSNELL; 07-04-2013, 11:57 PM.

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          • #6
            yes,typically abouve about 1500 RPM the ISC request is 100%.

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            • #7
              ....

              ISC? typo or is that a another system to look into?

              Should I be changing that charcoal filter no matter what?

              Trying to troubleshoot this but any parts I am changing out in the meantime are somewhat expendable parts that should be done at some maintenance interval. Is this one of them?

              These fuel injected 4 strokes are definitely harder to troubleshoot than my old 2 stroke carbed beasts.

              Comment


              • #8
                update

                Got the cable last night and got what I could without running the engine. A little too early to be running in the driveway. Only past error code was "49" for overcooling which I fixed with changing the thermostat.

                Never mind on the ISC question, I see what you mean now and my reference to it was from reading posts from others. In my log it shows that it is at 65% with the engine not running.

                Since I had the time, I also pulled the low pressure pump off and it held 7 pounds of pressure without leaking so I'm assuming that is good.

                It does seem that besides the injectors, there is very little that the software will test with the fuel system. My first tests on the fuel rail were with a harbor freight tester. I returned that and got a slightly better one (OTC) and will be going through that test again.

                Comment


                • #9
                  With your YDIS hook up you can run a static test on the ISC you should be able to hear an audible sound when you operate the ISC with the program. Then on the active test you can operate the ISC and this will lift your RPM to about 2,000 then back to normal.

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                  • #10
                    ...

                    Did the active test tonight. Engine climbed to 1400-1500 rpm (with the test) and the ISC got to 100%. Not sure what the pass/fail criteria is beyond that for the ISC tests.

                    I don't smell any gas but suspect an air leak or maybe even a bad regulator. If I am getting good pressure on the rail, could I still get that with an air leak? What is the best way to find an air leak from the vst to the injectors?

                    It runs, idles, will accelerate, and come back down to idle. But hesitates a bit when throttling up. Might take down to the lake to see what it does under load.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      gotta ask.
                      if you have good rail pressure, why suspect a regulator?

                      gotta ask, why would you think you have an air leak on a 45 PSI fuel rail?
                      we call that a fuel leak.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ..

                        I"m going to test the fuel pressure again with my new gauge. It was not 45psi. It ranged from the high 30's to 44 psi.

                        After reading about it, sounds like the regulator is to keep the pressure from going higher than it should? If so and I'm not at a constant 44-45 psi, could it be failing? Or would it be more obvious than this (no start or high idle condition)?

                        Suspect the air because it may be possible that one of the hoses might not be clamped down 100%. I am going to check that as well. Maybe even change all of the lines with new ones?

                        Booked an appointment with a dealer but 2 week wait just for them to look at it. And comes with one of those "should be able to" clauses.

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                        • #13
                          you must check rail pressure at the failure point and load.
                          44 is 0k,38 may be passable.

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                          • #14
                            update

                            Checked fuel pressure again and it is 42PSI.

                            I decided to take it for a real water test again and went to the local lake. IT RAN GREAT. All the way to 5700 RPMs. Ran for about 6-7 minutes and then headed in with a smile on my face. As I approached the ramp it started to misfire. Suspecting that it could still be a failing low pressure pump (that ride time was about what could have been in the VST?) I pumped the primer bulb and the misfire; instead of getting better got worst. Loaded it up and went home.

                            When I got home and put the engine down to drain the water out, I saw gas mixed in with the exhaust water. Pulled the cowling off, no visible leaks.

                            Compression test on all 4 yielded that the #4 cylinder was flooded with fuel and showed low compression. Not sure if the excessive fuel in there is affecting the test but when I do a compression test on the other 3 I get 135 PSI after turning over for 2-3 seconds. #4 only gets to 100 with the same test. It will get to 125 if I keep turning over for 5-6 seconds though. Could this be a stuck exhaust valve not seating correctly?

                            I know a leak down test is what should really be done and will request that be done when I bring to the dealer.

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                            • #15
                              Stuck open injector maybe, if that is possible.
                              That much fuel in #4 would wash all the oil off piston and rings and loose lubrication which is not good

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