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F225 EFI Fogging?

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  • #1

    F225 EFI Fogging?

    Another question re: storage / winterizing:

    The “sticky” re: Maintenance Matters is reasonably clear re: the use of Fogging Oil and Engine Tuner:

    “Run the fuel treatment through the engine for about 10-15 minutes then switch to the storage mix tank for another few minutes. The air silencer then is removed to spray a good dose of Engine Tuner through the carburetors or fuel injection air tubes.” Later it says: “Now, you are ready to use the fogging oil. Spray the fogging oil into the same orifices as the engine tuner.”

    Both of my local Yamaha dealers disagree with spraying anything into the Fuel Injection air tubes. They say spraying fogging oil or engine tuner into the air tubes will possibly foul the injectors. In addition they say removing the air silencer is painful and time consuming. Lastly, neither dealer uses fogging oil. They use a "special" fuel treatment, provided by a separate fuel tank during the winterization process, that serves the same purpose.

    They sold me fogging oil to spray the cylinders via the spark plug holes, and Yamaha “Ring Free” fuel treatment to help de-carbon.

    I like to follow the manufacturer’s recommendations precisely, and I don’t mind the time it takes for example to remove the air silencer.

    My question: Should I follow the “Maintenance Matters” procedure or what has been suggested by my local Yamaha dealers?

    Thanks in advance. Robin
    Tags: None
  • #2
    on the EFI mercruisers and Volvos we use a fogging mix through the VST assy. we also do it with EFI 4 stroke Yamaha.
    this mix protects the VST and rails and injectors. we also use crankcase stor n start in the oil.

    Comment

    • #3
      F225 EFI Fogging

      Originally posted by rodbolt17 View Post
      on the EFI mercruisers and Volvos we use a fogging mix through the VST assy. we also do it with EFI 4 stroke Yamaha.
      this mix protects the VST and rails and injectors. we also use crankcase stor n start in the oil.
      Thanks RodBolt17. Your procedure is consistent with my local dealers.

      This still leaves questions in my mind regarding the Yamaha recommended fogging procedure. As a result I will not risk messing up the injectors. I plan to fog through the spark plug holes only. And I used Ring Free versus de-carbon spray.

      I confirmed yesterday that pulling the air silencers is mildly painful for me. Given all of this I will likely have the dealer at least perform the fogging mix procedure next year.
      Robin

      Comment

      • #4
        How is fogging compound being introduced into the intake manifold going to foul the injectors?

        Is fogging compound getting to the fuel injector nozzle via the air intake system going to harm the injector nozzle (clog it) or will it protect the injector nozzle from corrosion?

        While fogging compound being applied to a combustion chamber via a spark plug hole is a good idea it is not going to protect the other side of the intake valves.

        What about protection of the throttle valves? How does fogging compound get to the throttle valves if only applied via the spark plug holes?

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by MealsOnReels View Post
          This still leaves questions in my mind regarding the Yamaha recommended fogging procedure.
          Just an FYI...

          If you're still referring to the "sticky" on this forum, that's where your confusion lies. This forum has nothing to do with Yamaha, the company. While we don't know exactly who wrote that sticky, note that it was written by "boats.net". We're lucky to have at least one person on this forum that is a Yamaha tech and many others that are EXTREMELY knowledgable, as well. But the sticky has absolutely nothing to do with mother Yamaha.
          2000 Yamaha OX66 250HP SX250TXRY 61AX103847T
          1982 Grady Weekender/Offshore (removed stern drive & modded to be an OB)

          Comment

          • #6
            F225 EFI Fogging

            boscoe99 - thanks. I have similar questions. I think my local dealers have understandably been pushing me to having them do the service. I get that.

            DennisG01 - Yes I have been using the “sticky” on winterization as gospel from Yamaha. I appreciate your clarification as well as the excellent advice that I have received from experts on this forum regarding other questions I have asked.

            At this writing I am a little frustrated trying complete my winter prep, specifically fogging.

            I can pull the air silencers and administer the fogging oil as described in the sticky, on youtube and elsewhere on the Internet.

            Alternatively I am OK with heading to my dealer for just this fogging piece. But first I want to understand how an apparently available-to-dealers-only fuel additive can serve the function of traditional fogging and protect the components that Boscoe99 listed above. As yet I have not found any product or guidance that supports this alternative-to-traditional-fogging process. If in fact this product + process is recommended and endorsed by mother Yamaha I am anxious to learn more and would most likely choose this alternative.

            Comment

            • #7
              Yamaha says that fogging oil will protect bearings. In a four stroke, I don't see how.

              My guess is that lots of folks are lazy. They won't take the time to thoroughly fog a motor, if indeed they do anything at all. I suspect that Yamaha is now trying to introduce a "lazy mans way" to fogging a motor, by simply pouring some magic solution into the gasoline, and running the motor for a period of time. Trying to get them to do something, rather than nothing. I suppose. Don't really know.

              Still wondering why a two stroke EFI being fogged through the air box won't harm an injector whereas some say that a four stroke EFI being fogged through the air box will harm an injector.

              Good thing about the inner web is that what ever position one wants supported, it can be found. OK to fog. OK to not fog. OK to fog in any number of ways. Say what you want to do and someone somewhere will agree with you. Just ignore the many that don't. Lots of nattering nabobs of negativity here on the inner web.
              Last edited by boscoe99; 09-19-2017, 03:14 PM.

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              • #8
                I will repeat myself at the risk of being cruel.

                add the correct amount of fuel stabilizer to the engine tank. add Crankcase store-N-start
                run long enough to fill the water separator and fuel system with the treated fuel.
                .

                disconnect the inlet line at the fuel cup.
                attach the fogging mixture to the fuel inlet and run it.

                it is faster if you empty the filter cup and drain the VST before running the mix.

                Volvo and Mercs recipe.
                5 gallons of gas.
                64OZ of two stroke TCW3.
                fuel stabilizer per instructions.
                about the only difference between a 4 stroke EFI Yamaha and a merc or Volvo EFI is the orientation of the crankshaft.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Do it Rodbolts way. I can tell you that fogging through the intake is a PITA, and you will have a stalling problem next year. The fogging oil will gum up the throttle plates and IAC motor.
                  Stanley Islander 19, 2006 Yamaha F150TLRC. Ottawa, Canada
                  16' York River, 1986 Yamaha PRO 50.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    I'm going to skip the whole thing and just try and run the boat at least once a month. I've already got Stabil and Enzyme Fuel Treatment(s) in the tank.

                    Around here its not unusual to fish right up to the New Year since we (used) to have a great winter striper season. 4 years ago there were tuna mixed in, just off the beach. The humpbacks were here in force last Feb-March, which is another opportunity to run the boat. If I do fog, it will only be a shot of miracle jizz into the plug holes.

                    We let automotive engines winter over all the time without winterizing. Never understood the need to mess with a 4 stroke OB beyond the Ecrap10 in the tank.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by oldmako69 View Post
                      I'm going to skip the whole thing and just try and run the boat at least once a month. I've already got Stabil and Enzyme Fuel Treatment(s) in the tank.

                      Around here its not unusual to fish right up to the New Year since we (used) to have a great winter striper season. 4 years ago there were tuna mixed in, just off the beach. The humpbacks were here in force last Feb-March, which is another opportunity to run the boat. If I do fog, it will only be a shot of miracle jizz into the plug holes.

                      We let automotive engines winter over all the time without winterizing. Never understood the need to mess with a 4 stroke OB beyond the Ecrap10 in the tank.
                      Give her a good shot of that miracle jizz and turn her over a couple times.
                      Maybe I have it backwards...

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                      • #12
                        Pretty sure I'm pickin' up what you're throwin' down, or vice versa.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          F225 EFI Fogging

                          Once again I very much appreciate the helpful input from all of you. I realize and respect there are lots of opinions. FWIW I did find a Yamaha document that clearly explains the traditional fogging approach.

                          That said, having removed the port air silencer I can attest it's a pain at least for me. Also I understand conceptually how using two cycle oil should provide some protection as it has for many years in my two cycle small motors (I don't fog these small motors, I use fuel stabilizer and drain or run-out the fuel).

                          I am not sure it is relevant, but I am in fresh water only so corrosion from salt air and water is not an issue. Unfortunately I do have a longer storage duration than many of you southern folks.

                          So for me, I prefer Rodbolt's procedure. Additionally I plan to lightly spray fogging oil through the spark plug holes. Maybe overkill but need to check plugs regardless.

                          Thanks again for taking the time to respond.
                          Robin

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Its been suggested before that one should never run a 2 cycle engine until it dies as this results in no lube for a potato or two as the engine craps out. I dunno.

                            I do know that I have a 30 year old Stihl chainsaw which has probably cut a million cords of wood over its lifespan. Pretty sure its run out of fuel a few times. As has my weed-di-deeter.

                            Local Yam shop says just to toss a few tablespoons of 2 CY oil in the Racors and run it till she smokes and then shut it down. Wander off. Fill tumbler. Light stogie. Await spring.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by oldmako69 View Post
                              Its been suggested before that one should never run a 2 cycle engine until it dies as this results in no lube for a potato or two as the engine craps out. I dunno.
                              Another inner web myth.

                              On a premix model any gasoline getting into the combustion chamber to burn will have oil mixed with it. At the point where there is insufficient fuel/oil to support combustion there will still be plenty of oil available to lubricate the motor.

                              On EFI two stroke models oil is mixed with gasoline in the vapor separator tank. By the time it gets sprayed into the intake manifold the same rule applies that applies to a carbureted model using premix.

                              On other model Yams oil is injected directly into the intake air stream. A tad might get added to the gasoline. As the motor starts to die due to a lack of gasoline the oil pump is still injecting oil into the motor.

                              Let a two stroke motor die due to the fuel supply being terminated. Dismantle the motor. One will be surprised by the amount of residual oil that remains within the crank case.

                              Now on EFI and HPDI two strokes, as well as EFI four strokes, there is a good reason not to let the motor run out of gasoline. But this is due to the possibility of an electric fuel pump being damaged due to lack of its lubricate. Nothing to do with the oiling system.

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