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2005 HPDI VMAX, head scratcher,

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  • 2005 HPDI VMAX, head scratcher,

    Good Evening,
    I have read many of your great posts over the past couple of weeks to assist in my quest to get my 22' Zag Fab boat I bought at an Action running to no avail.
    1) I have changed out all of the fuel lines, main filter, filter on the motor, two lift pumps, VST screen.
    2) upon inspection I found that the last "mechanic" that worked on the motor pulled the screens out of the injectors. Had the injectors cleaned and flow tested, installed screens into the injectors.
    All of the injectors passed three had 1.1 ohms of resistance, two had 1.2 and the new replacement had 1.3ohms. 295 - 305cc's
    4) new plugs
    5) new water pump
    6) New 1100CCA battery at 13.2 volts
    7) 115psi within 2psi on all 6
    8) cleaned out the fuel tanks,
    Ran the engine with a local outboard mechanics diagnostic computer on it. Said all 6 firing, 1000+ PSI on the high pressure, 60 PSI on the medium, All normal, showed one injector in the history as bad but I had already replaced it. 472 hours on her.
    engine Speed 2825rpm
    Fuel pressure( assume med pressure) 6.90Mpa
    Fuel Pressure 1086PSI
    Atmospheric pressure 893 HPa
    Atmospheric pressure 26.4 InHg
    Ignition timing BTDC 4 deg
    Battery voltage 13.7
    TPS voltage 1.07
    Throttle valve opening 12.1 deg
    Fuel injection duration .84 ms
    Firing # 1-6 Yes
    The motor was always hard to get fired up, initially ran rough, engaged into forward and ran it at 2300 rpm for about 20 minutes on ear muffs. Seemed to clean up, but started to miss. I thought it might just need to be run for a while because it had sat for two years previously. Brought it to the lake with New fuel and Seafoam in the tank with no ethanol. Ran on three cylinders, number one (left top) number four and five right top cylinders. Thought the plugs had fouled so switched the plugs from the running cylinders to the dead cylinders. Would not fire and start at all. Eventually got it running on three again after switching the plugs back to the running cylinders. Will not idle, (for long) primer bulb is hard.
    Too get this engine started is a task, lots of cranking, I have to engage it into gear quickly when it fires, it will gradually speed up on the three running cylinders.
    I am at wits end with this motor and have tried everything I could find on the net. Sorry for the long winded explanation but want to be sure to get all of the facts down. There are a lot of very mechanically inclinded members on this forum so wanted to get details down as accurately as possible.
    Has bright blue spark on all 6 cylinders
    The cylinders that are not firing appear to be only getting oil, by feel and smell. Other three plugs nice ****en brown

    Any ideas or information would be greatly appreciated, I would take it to the local mechanic but he is busy for a few weeks then getting married,

    I installed a new wiring harness kit Part number 90891-40460
    Searched for hours looking for a year and model cross over all I could find was that it was for the HPDI, all plugs were the same no extra's.

    Have an additional question regarding ECU for this motor. From the research I have done Yamaha HPDI Vmax engines used 16 bit technology until 2005 when they switched to 16/32bit, 2005 was the only year that has the 16/32 it was then switched to 32bit in 2006>. My question is will the wiring harness from a 2006> (32bit) work with a 2005 16/32 bit ECU? Can anyone tell me difference in the harnesses?

    Borrowed my mechanics diagnostic cpu again today, very odd occurance as follows:
    Testing injectors 1-6, 1-3 could be audibly heard clicking during the 10 second cycle. There was a faint buzzing in the injector driver area during the testing. When I tested injector four it did not actuate. I disconnected the wiring from injector number 4, the faint buzzing stopped, almost sounded like a muffled alarm. I switched the injector drivers top for bottom, bottom for top no buzzing this time, and performed a test on 4 again. As the other tests the med pressure fuel pump kicked in for 10 seconds and the test started, the medium pressure fuel pump kicked in rather than the injector? I took the plug off of number one injector and installed it on injector four and performed the test again, I could hear the injector working.
    Any ideas what could cause this? I am tempted to install my old wiring harness, it has some fire damage from the previous owner (police boat) not bad but some of the wires are discoloured and I did notice the emergency oil switch started working with the new harness.

    Still trying to get this motor running any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
    Thank you
    Scott
    Last edited by zag fab 69; 08-23-2015, 02:15 AM.

  • #2
    TPS voltage is off.
    if your at sea level the baro feed back is way off.
    have you tested the 5V ref circuits?
    the ign timing may or may not be way off depending on engine temp.

    the ONLY way to tell if all 6 plugs are actually fireing is with a KV tester.

    the injector test uses different circuits for testing than for running.

    all it can verify is wireing integretiy between the driver and the injectors.

    Comment


    • #3
      Rod, I would first like to thank you for throwing me a life line.
      The TPS is off? Though it was in specification.
      I am at 2100ft elevation.
      Sorry what is the 5 volt Ref circuit?

      Water temperature was 124.7f (below194)
      Intake temperature 81.5 (158)

      I will try out a KV tester,

      Thanks so much for your input
      Regards
      Scott
      Last edited by zag fab 69; 08-23-2015, 10:21 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        5 Volt reference voltage

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 99yam40 View Post
          5 Volt reference voltage
          Thank you for the clarification 99yam,
          Where does one find this circuit to test it? Does the motor have to be running to test the "circuit for voltage reference" at this point I cannot get the motor lit up.

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          • #6
            it is the voltage the ECU sends to the sensors.
            Bad voltage in = bad out.

            Could be something pulling the voltage down

            Comment


            • #7
              Each orange sensor wire normally has five volts on it. Check the orange wires to see if the voltage is correct or not.
              Last edited by boscoe99; 08-23-2015, 11:13 AM.

              Comment


              • #8

                Comment


                • #9
                  Regarding ECU and wire harness changes, Yamaha introduced Command Link (digital data bus) starting with motors having a production date of circa 04/05. The ECU and one of the two wire harnesses is different for this production change. I seem to recall that if the ECU and harness are mismatched one of the injectors won't work. The wire to that injector was changed as part of the wire harness change.

                  I would look at the Yamaha parts catalog to determine which harnesses go with which ECU's.

                  By the way, what part number harnesses were in the kit that you installed?
                  Last edited by boscoe99; 08-23-2015, 01:44 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    HPDI motors do not fire all cylinders when in neutral if you have not realized that already.
                    And if you raise the RPM in neutral it will cut more cylinders trying to limit the RPM with no load on the motor

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      easy test on the shift cut and shift position switchs, simply watch them on YDS when you shift gears.
                      they will show ON or OFF.

                      its an odd thing with HPDI.
                      if it gets an ingear signal while cranking it limits the RPM to about 2300.
                      if it gets an N position when its in gear it starts shutting down cylinders when RPM is increased.

                      what does your local weather station report as baro pressure?
                      that is what your key on baro pressure should be.
                      the rest looks like either the throttle was opened or the link and sync is off.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        threw in the towel and drove three and a half hours to a dealer that has all of the test leads. I did not feel right using my multimeter it tight quarters with other pins. I will be sure to share the outcome. Thank you all for your assistance. Hope this dealer is competent and does not just throw parts at it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Boscoe, do you remember which injector won't fire as a result of a mismatched ECU and harness? I have a freshly rebuilt 2005 VMax 200 HPDI that won't fire on one cylinder. The motor was rebuilt with one used harness and one new one. The new harness (Harness 2, which is the one that feeds to the injectors) is from a 2005, but I'm not sure of the year motor the other harness came from.

                          My mechanic finally got it to fire on all 6 by swapping the ECU and injector drivers from another motor, but I'm not sure of the year motor that ECU came from. We've both been going crazy trying to figure this out, and I think what you said may be the solution. Appreciate any advice you can give!

                          Originally posted by boscoe99 View Post
                          Regarding ECU and wire harness changes, Yamaha introduced Command Link (digital data bus) starting with motors having a production date of circa 04/05. The ECU and one of the two wire harnesses is different for this production change. I seem to recall that if the ECU and harness are mismatched one of the injectors won't work. The wire to that injector was changed as part of the wire harness change.

                          I would look at the Yamaha parts catalog to determine which harnesses go with which ECU's.

                          By the way, what part number harnesses were in the kit that you installed?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Evening Gents,
                            I wanted to give you an update on this project. The dealer could not fix the motor, frustrating... I did more investigation and found out the new wiring harness I purchased was for a 2003 -2004, so not compatible with my 2005 16/32 bit harness. Ordered a 2006 harness and ECU. Dealer wanted 4.5 hours at 130 an hour to install the new ECU and harness so I installed them both in the parking lot in 45 minutes. He looked sheepish when I walked back in and asked him to hook it up to his CPU. After installing the new ECU and harness the same issues occurred, Firing on three cylinders. Drove the boat home 3.5 hours, I purchased Yamaha's diagnostic wiring patch and program. Actuated the injectors one by one, noticed a different tone to some of the injectors. Still clicked and actuated but did not sound crisp. Installed new injectors and bingo, she's running on all 6 cylinders. The 2006 ECU is a 250hp ECU so might gain a few ponies to boot. Will take it out on the open water for a test under load and report back.
                            Thank you for all of your assistance.
                            Does anyone know if I will get 250hp outta my 200hpdi Vmax with the 250hpdi ECU? I believe there is a difference in porting from what I have read so I think the most I will get out of it is 225hp. Not that it matters, I will be more than happy if its running reliably go forward ,
                            Cheers
                            Scott
                            Last edited by zag fab 69; 09-14-2015, 11:56 PM.

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                            • #15
                              I've been following this thread, what great news!

                              Very interesting your experience with the dealer.. I hope the tech learned something.

                              Don't ya love this forum!!!
                              Scott
                              1997 Angler 204, Center Console powered by a 2006 Yamaha F150TXR

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