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Fuel starvation yamaha f225

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  • I've had similar issues in the past, but my motors are running pretty sweet right now. I attacked pretty much everything you did but I also replaced both pumps on the Port engine. I think that the HI psi pump died because it kept cooking when the VST ran empty. At least, that's my belief. But my engine was dying after prolonged idle in the no wake zone. It would always respond to squeezing the bulb until firm. Clearly, the VST was running out of fuel.

    I started at the tank and cut an inch off of every hose at every connector in an attempt to eliminate any air from entering the system.
    Where I could, I eliminated short runs of hose and barbs.
    I added new fuel lines if any were less than new in appearance.
    I pulled the racors and lightly sanded their mating surface to the filter canister. I checked the surface with a straight edge. I added new filters and gaskets just in case.
    I swapped the check valves from P to S. No change, which is good as that thing is expensive.
    I put in a new first stage engine filter and gasket, carefully installing it to ensure that it was snug and not leaking.
    I opened the VST and checked the screen. I replaced the VST gasket.
    I put in a new F filter.
    I monitored the LO PSI pump operation at idle with the engine cowl and air silencer off. Ops normal.
    I replaced all the hose clamps.
    etc etc etc.
    The supply side of the system must be flawless in integrity lest the LO PSI pump suck in air instead of fuel. At least, that's how it seems to me.

    The engine is pulling fuel the entire time it's running, and then when you shut it down, the suction on the supply side of the LO PSI pump is still present. If there's a leak, air will enter and there goes the prime for the LO PSI pump, right?? You fire it up using the fuel in the VST and then it quits due to starvation, as Rodbolt says.

    Finally, my problem went away. I cannot pinpoint exactly what the issue was. That is frustrating. That was roughly 150 hours ago.

    Now, my STBD motor behaves as yours does, but only occasionally. I can leave it in the water for a few days, start it without squeezing the bulb and then run it without an issue. Then, two days later I run it for an hour or two and shut it down for a long drift. It will then quit at throttle up after sitting off while WARM.

    I wonder if the temp has something to do with it. Consider that the temp under that cowling is HOT after you shut it down. No water cooling flow to a hot engine. I would not be surprised if the heat plays a role in allowing the delivery side to bleed off pressure as it cools. PERHAPS the increased temps increase the suction differential in the supply line, and when no fuel is flowing, any breach in supply integrity will allow air in?

    I don't know, just thinking out loud.

    In your video, how long does it take to see fuel flowing back into the first stage (engine) fuel filter? I am surprised to see it empty for so long As the fuel flows to the LO PSI pump I would expect to see an increase in suction due to the filter draining (to the LO pump). Would that not hold the fuel in the supply line? If your other engine is running normally, I'd attempt to recreate that situation with another piece of clear line. If that line does not behave the same exact way, you may be on your way to a solution.
    Last edited by oldmako69; 07-22-2018, 10:31 PM. Reason: clarity

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    • For the purpose of trouble shooting your problem, could you plumb in an inline antisiphon valve just before the lift pump?
      This would separate the engine fuel system from the boat fuel system.
      Then run the engine the same way as your last video with the clear hose and see if the fuel falls back when the pump is not running. If it does not fall back then you would know that the engine fuel system from the lift pump fwd is holding and not introducing or sucking air. Then it would have to be somewhere BEFORE the lift pump in the boats fuel system.

      Or just take a 5 gallon portable tank and hose, remove the engine quick disconnect fitting from the hose and attach the hose directly to lift pump inlet...thereby bypassing everything in the boat.Run it and see what happens.

      As oldmanmako said in his post... I too am just thinking out loud of what you might try to narrow down your problem.

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      • Thinking out loud and talking about it is the only way to fix this. What kills me this only started this year on the starboard motor. Right now im not sure what I have, air leak, restriction etc. So my thought process is the following. I checked that the inboard tank was venting. I am going to replace from the tank up to and including the filter cup. I have a fuel management system that I am going to by pass, it reduces down the fuel line from 3/8 to 5/16. So I think as mentioned that the vst is not running at capacity. But even if the vst wasn't full at a hot restart as soon as your start the l/p comes on and in theory the vst should fill . Like others I have gone over these motors and come up with nothing.
        The only thing that is unknown to me is that I idle out of my marina for about 15 minutes so I don't really know if this happens cold. But I do know that I have no problems if I leave the motors running. I am on vacation so I have time to figure this out. Its less expensive to replace hoses than Yamaha parts. All fuel parts in the boat are original from 2003. I was thinking of installing a check valve to see if I could isolate the problem. At this time I think its better to replace the old than think something is still good, the only way to rule things out.

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        • Old parts are automatically suspect, particularly rubber ones exposed to E10. Are you burning ethanol? That shit eats the hose from the inside out. I'd get rid of all of it as its cheap, and install new clamps as well. Eliminating any restriction and or connector certainly can't hurt and might isolate the culprit.

          I wonder about the LOW PSI pump prime at startup. Yes, the pump is running (10-20) but if it's not pulling fuel through the tube (due possibly to a loss of suction/leak on the supply side) then it's not going to fill the VST until it overcomes the loss, particularly because of its ON-OFF operation at idle.

          Have you tried simply swapping the engine fuel feed on the two engines? P to S, and S to P? If the situation follows, you pretty much know it's between the engine and the tank.

          The more I think about it, no fuel in the line in your video is probably normal while the Lo PSI pump is in its dwell mode. As fuel leaves the cup under pump suction, the pressure differential decreases. But, what do I know?

          Good luck.
          Last edited by oldmako69; 07-23-2018, 05:29 PM.

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          • I would have swapped the lines but since it started this year on the starboard motor didn't make much sense. And as said some fuel back does make sense but how much? I am going to start today replacing all from the tank to and including the fuel cup. I am going to by pass the fuel management valve in the line. I just get that feeling that this will never go away.....

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            • You'll get it figured out. Especially if you're currently running with '03 hoses and bits. Get that old stuff out of there, or at lease inspect every inch. ie...Trim every end where it tends to split, etc. You're losing prime somewhere. E10 is said to be highly corrosive to rubber. It may have compromised your system by now. I sleep better knowing that I got rid of much of my old fuel line.

              Gates makes a new fuel hose that is supposedly E10 resistant and will not rot internally. It's crazy money and I'm not sure its worth it. Of course, my Racor might be filtering it all out before I see it.

              You could always add an electric supply pump, upstream from the engine, perhaps right after the Racor. That would effectively pressurize the low PSI supply side. Obviously, you'd need to take care to ensure it is done safely. Ten bucks say's you'll figure it out without going to that extreme. And I'm not sure how excited the USCG would be to see that. I know that when I ran an inboard they always wanted to look at my fuel feed.



              ​​​​​​https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...8251/overview/
              Last edited by oldmako69; 07-24-2018, 12:04 PM.

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              • ok im here to post my update; And I have actually found something im not sure if this is it but..... Today I was replacing my fuel system, both motors from tank to filter. I was checking the tank fittings and I discovered that the anti-syphon balls were removed from the fitting . So both of my fuel systems didn't have any ant- syphon valves other then the primer bulb . So im keeping my finger crossed . Im guessing the previous owner had a clogged ant-syphon and instead of replacing it . Another question the pipe joint that connects the fuel line to the filler cup that's not suppose to be a a check valve?

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                • Did what i said changed everything from tank including filter cup and gasket. Went out of marina idled to the gas dock about 15 minutes fueled up and the port motor died as usual . Out running it right now all is still fine if we don’t shut off. So what’s next

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                  • So I’m guessing it’s not heat

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                    • try a portable tank hooked up the lift pump to see if that helps, as was said before
                      have you proved that the lift pump pumps fuel when the motor is dying?
                      shutting down and letting the VST heat soak, does that cause the fuel to boil out and then the lift pump is not filling it back up?

                      is the primer bulb firm when you 1st shut the motor down, and then needs pumping to fill VST back up after sitting?
                      could the heat vaporizing the fuel push the fuel back down the lift pump towards the tank so that when energized it has no liquid fuel to pump even if it is being energized and running.

                      I would think pressure gauges would help you see what is happening along with that clear hose
                      Last edited by 99yam40; 07-28-2018, 02:56 PM.

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                      • Have you been into the VST on that engine?

                        If that crummy little gasket under the lid leaked....in other words, if when the engine was OFF a small leak in that gasket allowed air IN and IF the fuel level within the VST dropped you might have similar problems.

                        But, I don't know, and I don't think that fuel would flow back through the VST fill. After all, its flowing back to the Low PSI pump.

                        If you haven't been into the VST, soak the screws with Aerokroil or similar and use a proper screwdriver head. Those little screws are junk once aged and if corroded into the pot metal VST you could have issues trying to get them out. Look at used VST prices on eBay before you dig in.

                        ***I am not a tech, just a slob who has already fought your battle (and other fuel issues) with my 2005 F225s. Purchased the boat after it sat unused in a garage for much of its life.
                        Last edited by oldmako69; 07-28-2018, 03:41 PM.

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                        • This time I only ran for a couple of minutes to get gas . It hardly had a chance to get warm. I ran all new hoses lines filters primer bulbs and filter cups. I went into the vat already and replaced the float needle. After the restart I ran the boat for an hour. Slow fast idle etc and never missed a beet.

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                          • If there is some sort of air leak I can’t find it . I think I have to throw in the towel

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                            • I guess you are thinking that the lift pump is pumping when the motor dies, but have not proved that it is

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                              • I m guessing it’s working when I reprime and it starts and goes

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