Boeing in hot water

[panasonic]

Boeing and the FAA are going to have to change their ways after these 737 max crashes.
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ion-air-crash/

[pstephens46]

Boeing and the FAA are going to have to change their ways after these 737 max crashes.
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ion-air-crash/

Panasonic- what are the yellow tubes in the first pic that are shown after opening the link.
hooked to the pitot tubes.

[boscoe99]

https://www.ateq-aviation.com/pitot-static-tester/

https://www.barfieldinc.com/en/servi...test-equipment

[boscoe99]

In other aviation news

[panasonic]

They have a pitot/static test box hooked up to the airplane. Hoses go to the pitot heads and others not seen in pic will be hooked up to several static ports.

Very precisely metered air pressure will go to the pitot tubes to simulate fwd airspeeds.

The hoses to the static ports will create negative pressures as if the aircraft is climbing or decending.

The test set will have an altimeter, airspeed indicator and a vertical speed indicator on it so the operator can put the aircrafts same indicator systems in flight while it is on the ground.

They can dial in what airspeed, what altitude and how fast the altitude is changing. Basically make the aircraft think it is flying.

The Angle of Attack sensor is just below it in the picture...one on the other side to match.

[panasonic]

Stephens also see Boscoe link...it has pictures and a video!!

[TownsendsFJR1300]

Boeing and the FAA are going to have to change their ways after these 737 max crashes.
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ion-air-crash/

Excellent article... Seems like an easy fix once the re-configuration is done..

Why the FAA allowed Boeing itself to pass / allow this system is un-real..

[boscoe99]

Excellent article... Seems like an easy fix once the re-configuration is done..

Why the FAA allowed Boeing itself to pass / allow this system is un-real..

This has been going on for a long long time. The FAA does not have the money, the people or the expertise to certify everything related to an airplane. The systems are so complex and and there as so many of them that they have to rely on employees of the company that are building the product. They nominate employees within a company to act as the FAA's representative. Known as a DER. Designated Engineering Representative.

Back when I worked for Lockheed in the 1970's and onward. I always thought it was strange for a company employee to be wearing two hats. His company hat and the FAA hat; while only the company paid his salary. But, in fairness to the system I have seen where a company employed DER would stand up against company management and tell them he could not and would not do what they wanted him to do. They knew they would not win the argument and backed down.

[panasonic]

In other aviation news

Lucky the wings stayed intact on the United plane and thus no fire. MLG ripped off and stuck in the fuse/engine is never a good thing.

[panasonic]

This has been going on for a long long time. The FAA does not have the money, the people or the expertise to certify everything related to an airplane. The systems are so complex and and there as so many of them that they have to rely on employees of the company that are building the product. They nominate employees within a company to act as the FAA's representative. Known as a DER. Designated Engineering Representative.

Back when I worked for Lockheed in the 1970's and onward. I always thought it was strange for a company employee to be wearing two hats. His company hat and the FAA hat; while only the company paid his salary. But, in fairness to the system I have seen where a company employed DER would stand up against company management and tell them he could not and would not do what they wanted him to do. They knew they would not win the argument and backed down.

The strange part of all of this to me is that apparantly the MCAS system only receives input from ONE of the two AoA device's. Never heard of such a critical flight system only having one input.Everything else has at least two or three redundancies.

Also it is an "Option" to have a warning system installed on the aircraft to alert the pilots of a disagree between the two AoA outputs. Both that crashed did not have this installed.

I don't know how the Airplane got certified like that. Boeing is going to pay dearly for that mistake.

[pstephens46]

This has been going on for a long long time. The FAA does not have the money, the people or the expertise to certify everything related to an airplane. The systems are so complex and and there as so many of them that they have to rely on employees of the company that are building the product. They nominate employees within a company to act as the FAA's representative. Known as a DER. Designated Engineering Representative.

Back when I worked for Lockheed in the 1970's and onward. I always thought it was strange for a company employee to be wearing two hats. His company hat and the FAA hat; while only the company paid his salary. But, in fairness to the system I have seen where a company employed DER would stand up against company management and tell them he could not and would not do what they wanted him to do. They knew they would not win the argument and backed down.

What kind of a long term career would a DER have? Seems like it would be a dead end position.

[boscoe99]

What kind of a long term career would a DER have? Seems like it would be a dead end position.

Actually the opposite. The DER's that I knew were 20, 30, 40 year employees. The older/old dogs.

Lots of times when a DER retired they would bring him back as highly paid consultant for additional engineering certification work. Until the younger whippersnapper engineers could be brought up to speed on a system. The retiree might be one of two, or perhaps the only one, that fully understands a particular system.

I suspect the exact same thing is going on within Gulfstream.

[boscoe99]

The strange part of all of this to me is that apparantly the MCAS system only receives input from ONE of the two AoA device's. Never heard of such a critical flight system only having one input.Everything else has at least two or three redundancies.

Also it is an "Option" to have a warning system installed on the aircraft to alert the pilots of a disagree between the two AoA outputs. Both that crashed did not have this installed.

I don't know how the Airplane got certified like that. Boeing is going to pay dearly for that mistake.

More likely it will be Boeing's insurance (or reinsurance) companies that pay for the mistake. We the consumers will then pay in the form of higher insurance premiums.

Is the 737 Max version being flown in Canada? If so, Transport Canada must have been in the loop and approved the system as is. Same with all of the non-US carriers.

Apparently both of the companies that had the crashes chose not to purchase the optional warning systems. Like the cheap barstard Yam owner that does not want to pay for a device to tell him why the warning horn is blaring.

Is now the right time to buy some Boeing stock? I had thought of buying some at the mid $80 per share level when the Li batteries were acting up. I procrastinated.

[pstephens46]

Actually the opposite. The DER's that I knew were 20, 30, 40 year employees. The older/old dogs.

Lots of times when a DER retired they would bring him back as highly paid consultant for additional engineering certification work. Until the younger whippersnapper engineers could be brought up to speed on a system. The retiree might be one of two, or perhaps the only one, that fully understands a particular system.

I suspect the exact same thing is going on within Gulfstream.

Thoughts were that aggravating management on a regular basis might not be a good way to zoom through the ranks.

[99yam40]

Thoughts were that aggravating management on a regular basis might not be a good way to zoom through the ranks.

I am fairly sure they did not zoom thru the ranks after they got the job, they had to be at the top before getting that job.